SNP doorstepping Edinburgh

[desiringtoremainsane]

I took the leap! I was doorstepped by our local SNP MP and SNP Councillor. No elections a the moment but SNP are surveying households about the support for the SNP (post-campervan) and independence. I took a deep breath and brought up single sex spaces.

I thought I’d share the conversation for anyone interested. The bullets below have the detail of the conversation. Two points before I get into it …

I’m low key GC. I’ve been to a couple of local events, have been reading this board for a while and listening to podcasts etc. I’ve tentatively broached the subject with my family and a couple of friends. This was my first go discussing it ‘in the wild’. I read a post here by someone who had done this exact thing, and it gave me the courage to do it. Nothing bad happened, I managed to keep my cool and I’ll be more confident next time.

For anyone in Edinburgh who is interested in who I spoke to please message me. I'm North Edinburgh.

• I asked where they stood on single sex spaces. MP said she doesn’t deal with it as a topic much and ‘it doesn’t come up on the doorstep’. Cue comedic pause while I gestured to my door step where we were standing. “Well, yes, ok” she said. My neighbour (also working in the front garen) pointed out that some women don’t feel comfortable giving their opinion about this openly.
• Then she moved on to the other standard response - it’s a heated discussion with strong views on both sides. It needs to have less heat etc. I asked if she felt the SNP had done a good job at making space for differing views and a conversation that was not too heated. Counsellor said SNP could do a better job on that.
• I brought up the example of the treatment of Joanna Cherry. The MP said the less she said about Joanna Cherry the better. I said I was bringing her up as an example of treatment of differing voices (trying to get above the personal). The MP continued to imply that she personally thought pretty poorly of Joanna Cherry and shouldn’t say too much. I found this pretty unprofessional.
• I brought up that Edinburgh Leisure has a self-ID policy for changing rooms. I had emailed them to find out their changing policy when looking for a gym to join. Counsellor asked if I joined. I said I wouldn’t with that policy. I also said I was surprised at the lack of transparency about the policy (men and women’s signs on the door, no signs about self-ID, no policy published on the website). Then the counsellor asked if there were other gyms that had a single-sex based changing room policy and I gave her a local example that did. I don’t think she thought there would be one ?!
• Finally, MP said she thought it wasn’t widely know that single-sex provisions were possible within the law. I agreed (to which she looked surprised) because I don’t think people who are responsible for changing room policies at gyms know they can stipulate single sex spaces.
• And finally, both of them said they had children in the late teens and twenties and that had shaped their views on trans rights. [At that point both me and my neighbour jumped in and said we had been talking about women’s rights]. They both said the next generation have different feelings on it. I took this as them implying that my (early 40s) views are out of date. I said that there is polling about the feelings of the wider population about trans rights and people are generally support trans rights in principle, but views are more mixed on specific policies. I’m sure I was that survey posted on this board.

Anyway, I don’t think they cared much. I’m thinking about sending them the polling on specific policies if I can find it again.
If I can, you can to.

I wonder what other high level policy issues SNP MPs discuss with their teenage children & are influenced by their views 🤔 or is just this one issue so they can say to woman who challenges them “ewwww my kids think it’s great and they’re young and you’re not, you’re old and mean and not with it”

seriously could they be anymore fucking ageist

Sheep are intelligent. They tend to second-guess their humans. Don't think the SNP and other politicians are sheep but something much nastier.

• I brought up that Edinburgh Leisure has a self-ID policy for changing rooms. I had emailed them to find out their changing policy when looking for a gym to join. Counsellor asked if I joined. I said I wouldn’t with that policy. I also said I was surprised at the lack of transparency about the policy (men and women’s signs on the door, no signs about self-ID, no policy published on the website). Then the counsellor asked if there were other gyms that had a single-sex based changing room policy and I gave her a local example that did. I don’t think she thought there would be one ?!

So a councillor was perfectly OK with being told that Edinburgh Leisure's policy is exclusionary, that women are self-excluding from sport and physical activity, that the policy appears to have been introduced by stealth. Her only response is that she would expect all gyms to have made their changing facilities mixed-sex by default. That really is quite the take. I can never think of what to say when people are so obtuse. You did extremely well, OP. I'm in a neighbouring constituency to yours, with lots of friends and colleagues who have your MP. They say she's pretty useless and never replies to emails. Mine (also SNP) is no better.

They both said the next generation have different feelings on it.

Yeah, this is like the frequent claim that most lesbians love and embrace doing men.

When you dig into it:

it turns out that they hang around exclusively with woke people who righteously hail the party line

said fun gang have excluded everyone with any other voices

there are no facts or statistics or actual attempt to verify it

and this is a bunch of people who identify as people being able to change sex and reality being a selective thing.

Nuff said really.

Agree. I always think this is so pathetic. Are you asking your children's views on fiscal policy? The two-child benefits rule? How to tackle inflation? Whether we should be investing n renewables or nuclear energy? Whether we should or shouldn't be arming Ukraine? Of course not. They recognise that teenagers aren't intellectually mature enough to have formed well-thought-through opinions on these things. But when it comes to gender, suddenly children are experts. The stupidity is mind-boggling.

I suspect it is not just the SNP but wasn't this the party that thought young men who committed sexual crimes should go to prison because the problem was their immaturity made them treat women badly. ie they were too young at 25 to know that to sexually asault women was wrong?!

Yes.

This generation is growing out of these immature ideas. Like a bad perm.

It’s alright to idealistic when you are young - but when reality bites and you are standing in a changing room with naked men, are called ‘chest feeder’ or ‘birthing parent’ and can’t ask for a same sex practitioner to give you a smear or your granny a sponge bath then it becomes real…

I really appreciate the support on this board and glad I shared. These were some pretty standard (and inadequate) talking points from people that simply don't want to engage with the issues.

I also brought up the GRR and said I couldn't understand why the SNP would expend so much political capital on something so unpopular (https://forwomen.scot/04/10/2022/public-opinion-polls/) and don't understand why they'd fight it. The MP's eyes nearly popped out her head. They can't see further than Westminster bad, SNP good. What they don't seem to realise is that trust and demonstration of basic competence is needed before anyone would want to put them in charge of an independent country.

I've got to agree with @morningtoncrescent62 "So a councillor was perfectly OK with being told that Edinburgh Leisure's policy is exclusionary ... and the policy appears to have been introduced by stealth." That's the basics to me, what about our muslim women? our older women? our children?

A big fat nothing from leadership.

Absolutely this. I think exposure to different people in different walks of life helps to give a broader perspective over time. Seeing a vulnerable older relative receive daily care, and how important making their own decisions is to maintaining dignity, or supporting someone after a sexual assault, makes clear how ludicrous 're-education' for care and support services actually is. It should also significantly realign thoughts about who is the 'most vulnerable'.

I've heard politicians being quoted as stating it doesn't come up on the doorstep so often now I'm starting to think that it's a pre-agreed lie.

I mean, line.

I mean, lie.

I think the younger generation are not not GC. They are just less vocal. Young women in particular are seeing it for what it is and by sixth form they feel the pansexual/non-binary ideology is passé.

I think they also see more now who has the power and who is calling the shots/telling them how to think/behave.

"it's a pre-agreed lie.

I mean, line.

I mean, lie."

😂Quite @ArabeIIaScott

Yes, I think young people now don't always accept the "most vulnerable" line and see that these same people who claim to be vulnerable are often compelling speech and behaviour.

@BabyStopCryin i really hope that they grow out of it, but I can’t see that happening for many years wrt the young adults around me.

Their experience of ‘trans’ is a friend being NB or others changing a name/pronouns (all ftm) but nothing else. They’re not exposed (thank god) in terms of health care or refuge or even sport. They can still get a female GP or nurse. They’ve not seen a 6ft 200lb male wearing a dress in their changing rooms.

It’s all too easy to #bekind, approve of gender neutral toilets and think they’re on the right side of history. It’ll be another decade, maybe having children and running into misogyny that will open eyes and thinking. Meanwhile rights will have gone and it’ll be so much harder to get them back.

Would love to have seen you gesture at your doorstep 🤣

I've had the SNP at the door a few weeks ago. Got: "a woman who is anyone who identifies as one."

Told the lassie my views on women's rights. She said there wasn't a box on the feedback form for such comments. So I guess that's how it can never come up on the doorstep.

You don't need a box for your comments, you need a box to put this eedjits in.

Unfortunately, there isn't a box in the world big enough to fit them all.

Deirdre Brock I'd guess?

Someone else who has done nothing with her years in WM.

Aren't young people those most likely to be fickle and change their minds most frequently? Targeting them politically seems to be a very high maintenance inefficient strategy.
Older people it takes something quite big to swing them but it does happen. e.g. Left leaning women on mumsnet giving up on leftist anti GC parties giving away women's rights to men.

From what I read it sounds like how the SNP behaved among themselves is how they behave to the voters. An authoritarian regime under a dictatorial figure where no dissent or opinion outside of the party line is tolerated. It feels to me this is how they are treating the electorate too. "Yeah that's not an issue" when asked about issues. They always seem to forget that while they can rule with an iron fist internally, the voters can tell them to fuck right off. I'm looking forwards to the next few elections where it looks like the SNP is going to have a very rough time. I am particularly anticipating whoever's in charge at the time slagging off Sturgeon and blaming the losses on her, and her reply ( hopefully from her cell shared with Adam the meaty rapist ) going on about how great a leader she was for Scotland. That's going to be golden.

This sentiment always makes me think of the Hitler Youth, who all had very modern and trendy opinions compared to their fuddy-duddy parents.

I also think it's worth spelling our that if it's daunting for 40-50 year olds to share their honest views on this issue then it's virtually impossible for teens. If I mention to my own peer group about my thoughts on puberty blockers or single sex spaces, there's a reasonable chance that more than half will agree. But a 14-15 year old, who has several trans-identifying kids in their class/peer group, who is right in the middle of those drama years where whole friendship groups get involved in taking sides and silly arguments drag out for weeks? The stakes are too high for them to share what they really think. Certainly some will be fully TWAW, but a very large number are done with this shit but too afraid to speak up

Their experience of ‘trans’ is a friend being NB or others changing a name/pronouns (all ftm) but nothing else. They’re not exposed (thank god) in terms of health care or refuge or even sport. They can still get a female GP or nurse. They’ve not seen a 6ft 200lb male wearing a dress in their changing rooms.

Dad's first experience of bloke-in-dress in the loos converted her to instant TERF. 'I just backed out and left, mum. I didn't even think about it, I just did it automatically, but I'd be slaughtered if I told anyone that at uni.'

Their experience of ‘trans’ is a friend being NB or others changing a name/pronouns (all ftm) but nothing else. They’re not exposed (thank god) in terms of health care or refuge or even sport.

This. Absolutely this. ^^ These views from women are the bastion of the hyper naive and hyper privileged. There are never lovely friends from minority cultures or faiths who experience challenges with this, never lovely friends who have been in refuges or needed rape crisis centres, never lovely friends who are actually homosexual and want to be free to be homosexual.

As seen above: this movement's reps on the doorstep are ageist, racist, religious intolerant, misogynist and homophobic. This is a team of Margot Leadbetters just with rainbow badges on instead of the Local Conservatives Club, still busy trying to keep the oiks from spoiling the neighbourhood and seeing only those Like Us as worthwhile or recognisable as human. It's snobbery on crack. They'll shout at you all day about their learned phrases (inclusion, colonialism, yada yada) with absolute zero comprehension of any of it, or actual interest in the values. They're just shouting slogans that translate as 'I identify as a superior person of the class that gets to order everyone else around'. I find it revolting.

It's the Red Guards of Mao's China that springs to mind for me. We already have struggle sessions and public shamings.

For the teen/student demographic it’s a desire to ally themselves to being supportive of an oppressed group. But in DDs experience they pick the easy stuff - she has a few less palatable health and other issues yet they all claim the nearest NB/trans I self-declared ASD person as their focus. She would win the top trumps on various medically diagnosed conditions and adverse life experiences stemming from them and some not so great side effects from various medications but her NB ex housemate claimed to be ‘triggered’ by an episode of ill health. A plague on teen experience and as my DD says she’d actually just love to be normal for once and they don’t have an effing clue while they play at fitting into diversity boxes. So mostly she keeps quiet.