Page 4 | Hadley Freeman on trigger warnings

WarriorN · 2023-08-28T06:52:48+00:00

A really interesting article exploring ideas around words, resilience and hurt. I always feel these new Times articles of hers could go to several more pages...! https://x.com/hadleyfreeman/status/1695712541475840251?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

ErrolTheDragon · 28/08/2023 15:49

dimorphism · 28/08/2023 15:41

Is it just me, or is anyone else weary of attempts to assassinate the character of female writers rather than discuss the merits of any given article?

I do understand this is what people do when they can't otherwise win an argument but it's just tiresome and misogynistic.

No, ad femina attacks are predictable and dull.

BlueMoe · 28/08/2023 15:55

winchfem · 28/08/2023 14:35

In my recent experience at university, content/trigger warnings were in place so people could prepare themselves to talk about upsetting subjects, not to avoid them. Whereas otherwise someone may have had to leave a lecture if the topic of sexual abuse came up without warning, the trigger warnings in our module guides allowed people to be prepared. I think in many ways it encourages resilience rather than discourages it, or at least gives people the tools they need to build resilience against trauma triggers

And yet….

In 2014, The New Yorker reported that students at Harvard were asking their professors not to teach rape law because it might cause “distress”,

These student Lawyers want to literally not even hear of its existence. The most privileged students in the world, and they have the absolute brass neck to insult victims of sexual abuse in this way. It’s actually outrageous, and as we approach ten years down the line from that, I hope they are burning with shame.

DojaPhat · 28/08/2023 16:06

It's the inconsistency which bothers me, why apply to trigger warnings to some things and not others. For example quite a few news broadcasters thought nothing of showing the murder of George Floyd without so much as a bother to censor when the cop applies pressure to Floyd's neck. Surely something as distressing as that does not warrant to be depicted in all graphic detail.

MolkosTeenageAngst · 28/08/2023 16:38

Personally I find some trigger/ content warnings helpful. I have struggled with self-harm for decades and there has often been an almost competitive aspect to it, I have relapsed after seeing depictions of scars, cuts and self injury on television. If I know that something will contain self harm in advance I can decide whether I feel able to watch it and avoid it if not, it’s the element of surprise that seems to make it worse.

That said, I do agree that sometimes the things that can be ‘triggering’ aren’t always obvious, I personally don’t find depictions of sexual assault triggering despite having trauma related to this and am more likely to be triggered by things which might be present in something totally unrelated, hotel rooms and locked doors for example can be ‘triggering’ if depicted in certain ways as can a certain stance or often arguments and imbalances of power even if completely unrelated to any assault.

Obviously you can’t content warning for everything, but I think there are some things such as suicide, self harm, sexual assault, baby/ child loss etc which are often particularly ‘triggering’ to those who have experienced them and which may be more likely to cause distress or a relapse than perhaps depictions of some other negative things people may have been through, maybe some trigger/ content warnings are a bit extreme or maybe the concept of giving warnings has been taken too far, 10 years ago they were perhaps only used for ‘high risk of distress or relapse’ type situations but it does seem they are used now for almost anything that may cause any discomfort for people rather than genuine distress or risk of harm.

ConstitutionHill · 28/08/2023 16:43

ErrolTheDragon · 28/08/2023 09:19

Rupert Murdoch explicitly has never had editorial control of the Times and Sunday Times. Glibly sneering at these papers with their long and continuing history of investigative journalism is a facile attempt to deflect from the content.

That's really interesting. Have you got ant links or anything to back that up please? Thanks.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/08/2023 16:48

@ConstitutionHill - yeah, I heard about it in a documentary some years ago but it's mentioned in the wiki page
'Murdoch provided legally binding guarantees to preserve the titles' editorial independence.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The Sundayy_Times

StoatofDisarray · 28/08/2023 18:13

Chipsahoy · 28/08/2023 09:36

I’ve had extreme trauma. In therapy for over a decade now. Part of therapy is learning to manage and face triggers because you can’t expect the world or people to change for you. Also triggers don’t work like people think. I’ve been through grooming gang type abuse. Rape scenes etc aren’t nice for sure and hearing about it but honestly it doesn’t trigger.
a scene in Paddington triggers. The smell of bonfire triggers. Examples here.
Stuff you wouldn’t expect. so you can’t trigger warning everything.

I’ve chosen a life away from people. I live rurally and interactions with others are when I’m up for it because my nervous system is damaged and I am slowly rebuilding it. Trigger warnings don’t help rebuild it, they keep me stuck.

Same here: rape and sexual abuse from age 7, multiple men. My "triggers" are orange squash, Uncle Ben's rice and Scooby Doo. If a rape or child abuse story comes up in a film I can switch off my emotions or switch off the film. Content warnings: fine. Trigger warnings? Bloody useless.

Notgreatreally · 28/08/2023 19:07

GolgafrinchamB · 28/08/2023 12:40

I completely agree, @RedToothBrush .

I’m sorry for what your family went through, @Notgreatreally . But as Red says, what you need it a Content Warning, not a Trigger Warning.

Trigger warnings tell the viewer/listener/reader that here is something that will rightly be distressing for them. It’s reductive, what actual “triggers” someone with trauma can be something totally unexpected (like Hadley’s example of water retention).

It sets up the expectation of a negative emotional reaction, and that a sensitive person would feel that way. Priming the pump as Red so eloquently says.

A content warning lists any issues contained within, and makes no value judgments not inferences as to how an audience would react.

”Scenes of sexual violence” is not triggering for me (fortunately) but I choose not to watch things containing them. Content warnings are useful, Trigger warnings are manipulative.

The word Trigger doesn’t trigger me though. I don’t care what the actual word is - that’s what I was saying. But content warnings tend to be more comprehensive and contain a lot of spoilers. A list of ‘triggers’ is easier to scan and less words so they may actually be published.

It’s all well and good saying trigger warnings ‘sets up the expectation of a negative emotional reaction, and that a sensitive person would feel that way. Priming the pump as Red so eloquently says’ but that’s not the situation I was talking about.

I am talking about a list of words I can scan quickly so I can avoid watching/reading something triggering altogether. You both are talking about priming yourself for something you have to go through. I have the luxury of choice and as mine is a common trigger it is easy to scan for in a list.

It’s well known if you can control your stressor then it’s not as stressful.
It’s the shock of my situation cropping up unexpectedly which causes the most upset (and increase of nightmares) and the subsequent anger that it’s upset me and the detachment to the programme I have previously been enjoying. It’s being able to choose not to see that. And it’s exhausting trying to avoid being upset. I just want to be able to scan a list not read lots of content when I flip on the sofa to distract myself with a good box set at night. I am fine with blood and guts on tv and real life so have a range of things to watch.

We may be talking at cross purposes if you mean content warning: list of triggers. My thoughts are that you mean detailed content.

Anyway as I said Commonsense Media was a godsend with the DSs at the beginning. It does have detailed content and a list of stuff that people may feel upset with and age ratings too from parents and children. Just ends up telling you the whole plot before you’ve watched it! And it doesn’t include most stuff I watch.

As you can tell it’s early days and I am talking about practicalities of dealing with it day-to-day rather than theories.

For me, a quick list of trigger warnings/ advice warnings/ notes/ is really useful. So I don’t have to be primed or read an huge amount of content and can just about relax.

ImNotWorthy · 28/08/2023 19:44

For women struggling with fertility issues, triggers are likely to be everywhere. I know this from experience, others will know it by empathy. Nothing for it but to get on with it...

PurpleBugz · 28/08/2023 21:56

I must say I find the phrase "unalived" for suicide frustrating.

I echo others here. I have a trauma history and you can't control the triggers as they are such random things. I've moved on so much now but when I was in the thick of it trigger warnings were harmful because it essentially ensured I'd click on it in some messed up emotional self harm or something like that 🤷‍♀️

Grammarnut · 29/08/2023 08:01

Greywhippet · 28/08/2023 09:07

It’s good that you are privileged enough to scoff at this, but I’ve taught children for whom that warning would be very necessary and you would not even want to imagine the reasons why.
In general, resilience is great but offering a trigger warning is kind and often necessary.
As for Hadley Freeman, I don’t believe that she is interested in the world being a better place or she wouldn’t be working for Rupert Murdoch

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One cannot always choose one's job. As to trigger warnings, I can imagine exactly why the children you taught needed one. But we all need to stop being so sensitive.

Grammarnut · 29/08/2023 08:08

Not sure life was less stressful in the past. There was always the possibility one's children would die of some small accident or a now preventable disease (my grandmother's first husband and her youngest son - aged 2 - both died of TB in the 1920s). Also, the constant threat every summer that the Vikings would appear on the river, rape you, your sisters, enslave you all, burn the place down, cannot have been very restful in the 7th to 9th centuries, nor that the Barbary pirates would turn up at your coastal village all through the Middle Ages up till c. 1830.

RoyalCorgi · 29/08/2023 08:12

Not sure whether I should respond to the nasty sneer about Hadley Freeman not wanting the world to be a better place because she works for Rupert Murdoch, but both the Times and Sunday Times do lots of excellent reporting designed to do just that. Two recent examples include the campaign on removing asbestos from buildings and the reporting on a Canadian man selling suicide drugs over the internet to people in the UK, resulting in 88 deaths. The man has been arrested as a result of the Times's work.

There are many more examples, which I'm happy to share.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 29/08/2023 08:19

nor that the Barbary pirates would turn up at your coastal village all through the Middle Ages up till c. 1830

Crikey, was it as late as that? I knew there were a few in the 1600s, but not as recently as 1830.

bellac11 · 29/08/2023 08:24

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 29/08/2023 08:19

nor that the Barbary pirates would turn up at your coastal village all through the Middle Ages up till c. 1830

Crikey, was it as late as that? I knew there were a few in the 1600s, but not as recently as 1830.

And if they didnt get you the pressgangers would.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 29/08/2023 09:03

Grammarnut · 29/08/2023 08:08

Not sure life was less stressful in the past. There was always the possibility one's children would die of some small accident or a now preventable disease (my grandmother's first husband and her youngest son - aged 2 - both died of TB in the 1920s). Also, the constant threat every summer that the Vikings would appear on the river, rape you, your sisters, enslave you all, burn the place down, cannot have been very restful in the 7th to 9th centuries, nor that the Barbary pirates would turn up at your coastal village all through the Middle Ages up till c. 1830.

I think the point was that life was very ‘ stressful’ and that the only way to cope was to ‘keep calm and carry on’ in the words of the famous tea towel. Of course, some people didn’t, they were the mental casualties just as the people pinned into the trees with their g….s out were the physical casualties.

Perhaps the main difference was that people were praised for resilience and ‘coping’ , rather than for being ‘sensitive’ and needing protection from the ‘slings and arrows’. One of the Greek philosophers advised ‘Accept in your heart that anything that can happen, can happen to you’. ‘Be prepared’ is not just practical advice.

Grammarnut · 29/08/2023 09:55

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 29/08/2023 09:03

I think the point was that life was very ‘ stressful’ and that the only way to cope was to ‘keep calm and carry on’ in the words of the famous tea towel. Of course, some people didn’t, they were the mental casualties just as the people pinned into the trees with their g….s out were the physical casualties.

Perhaps the main difference was that people were praised for resilience and ‘coping’ , rather than for being ‘sensitive’ and needing protection from the ‘slings and arrows’. One of the Greek philosophers advised ‘Accept in your heart that anything that can happen, can happen to you’. ‘Be prepared’ is not just practical advice.

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Well, I agree. Being sensitive and worrying all the time is not life-enhancing after all.

DeanElderberry · 29/08/2023 10:24

Also being sensitive and being thin-skinned are not the same thing. At all.