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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Queer production of As You Like It at Shakespeare’s Globe

113 replies

PotteringPondering · 27/08/2023 23:50

Spent the evening at Shakespeare’s Globe, at what turned out to be a queer production of As You Like It.

Almost all the actors were cast as characters of the opposite sex, and several appeared to be trans actors. In the play, some characters have to disguise themselves as the opposite sex, so it was impossible to follow who’s who (‘Hang on, so that woman with a beard is meant to be a male character, who then is disguised as a woman; no, wait a minute…’). There were a few good individual performances, but artistically it was a complete dog’s dinner.

It was shot through with sexualised queer stylings and dances, and ended with a speech (that definitely wasn’t written by Shakespeare) about how we’re all part of a big queer family, whether or not we wear nail varnish.

Lots of kids were in the audience.

It felt a little like finding yourself in a recruitment party for a transgressive sex cult, when what you really wanted was Shakespeare.

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RoyalCorgi · 28/08/2023 08:52

It sounds immensely tedious.

One of the things that is so irritating about this is that on the one hand, we have this free-for-all "ooh look aren't we daring and transgressive" approach, alongside an authoritarian view that apparently says straight actors can't play gay characters and "cis" actors can't play trans characters. They should at least aim for some consistency.

CouldNotResist · 28/08/2023 09:49

There would have been a lot of jeering, heckling and drunken misbehaviour at the real Globe if the lower class ‘groundlings’ in the audience thought the performance was shite. I’m sure it would be entirely in keeping with the ‘authenticity’ of The Globe experience if the audience today made their feelings known in a similar fashion. Though I’d hazard a guess that you’d be asked to leave if you so much as rolled your eyes.

Mummy08m · 28/08/2023 09:51

CouldNotResist · 28/08/2023 09:49

There would have been a lot of jeering, heckling and drunken misbehaviour at the real Globe if the lower class ‘groundlings’ in the audience thought the performance was shite. I’m sure it would be entirely in keeping with the ‘authenticity’ of The Globe experience if the audience today made their feelings known in a similar fashion. Though I’d hazard a guess that you’d be asked to leave if you so much as rolled your eyes.

Good point! Very democratic review system, who needs a column in the Times when you've got some rotten veg haha

PotteringPondering · 28/08/2023 10:00

CouldNotResist · 28/08/2023 09:49

There would have been a lot of jeering, heckling and drunken misbehaviour at the real Globe if the lower class ‘groundlings’ in the audience thought the performance was shite. I’m sure it would be entirely in keeping with the ‘authenticity’ of The Globe experience if the audience today made their feelings known in a similar fashion. Though I’d hazard a guess that you’d be asked to leave if you so much as rolled your eyes.

I was very British about it all, and whispered to the American tourist next to me: 'I'm pretty sure Shakespeare didn't write "We're all part of a big queer family".'

I'm now regretting not going full authentic Globe.

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FrancescaContini · 28/08/2023 10:01

Take some rotten tomatoes next time

PotteringPondering · 28/08/2023 10:05

FrancescaContini · 28/08/2023 10:01

Take some rotten tomatoes next time

A putrid Globe artichoke. Now that would have a poetic appropriateness to it.

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EmpressaurusOfCats · 28/08/2023 10:06

TheDogthatDug · 28/08/2023 06:04

Why does everything have to be "queered"? I would love to know what normal everyday gay people* think of this.

  • people who crack on with their lives and don't make their sexuality the only facet of their personality.

I’m sick of it, personally.

And ‘queerness’ and gender have sod all to do with LGB rights.

PotteringPondering · 28/08/2023 10:12

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 28/08/2023 01:08

Plays like As You Like It and Twelfth Night are already full of nods and winks about boys playing girls playing boys and the ridiculousness of gender stuff (from a 16th century perspective). As it’s written. Nothing else is needed text wise.

I really don’t mind different settings of the plays as there’s always a new perspective that I get from them. Plus it emphasises the universality of the human experience in that you can get them to work either via the original practices that The Globe did in Mark Rylance’s early days as AD, or by modern settings (the Adrian Lester Henry V was set in modern times and coincided with the invasion of Iraq and was very thought provoking). I can happily tolerate a bit of editing of the text to chop out some of the more problematic parts that modern audiences wouldn’t find acceptable (bits of anti semitism for example). I’ve enjoyed gender blind casting at The Globe eg Kathryn Hunter as Richard III or Vanessa Redgrave as Prospero. But when you start writing new speeches or messing around with casting decisions just to be edgy or different, it takes away from the integrity of the play and it just becomes a production “based on” Shakespeare.

And now I sound like one of those pretentious wanker groundlings in hats who laugh at jokes no one else does because they only work in Elizabethan English. Sorry, I’m not that precious about Shakespeare, but after all he did say “the play’s the thing”.

Edited

Love your erudite contributions to this thread, and your username.

I now plan to identify as a pretentious wanker groundling in a hat who laughs at jokes no one else does.

OP posts:
FrancescaContini · 28/08/2023 10:16

PotteringPondering · 28/08/2023 10:05

A putrid Globe artichoke. Now that would have a poetic appropriateness to it.

😂

Grammarnut · 28/08/2023 10:20

RhannionKPSS · 28/08/2023 00:06

FFS!! So we had a non binary Joan of Arc and now this shit. How much more ridiculous can The Globe become…?

I stopped watching A Midsummer Night's Dream when I realised Helena had been recast as a gay man (that really does not work in the play as the couples are attracted to each other, e.g. Lysander intends to marry Hermione). Then a trans fairy turned up, a large man in a pale blue tutu and wings. I gave up at this point - it was on TV so I could!

Grammarnut · 28/08/2023 10:23

PotteringPondering · 28/08/2023 10:00

I was very British about it all, and whispered to the American tourist next to me: 'I'm pretty sure Shakespeare didn't write "We're all part of a big queer family".'

I'm now regretting not going full authentic Globe.

Shakespeare wrote no such thing and we are not. 'Queering' is dangerous, intending the breaking down of boundaries as if this were always a good thing. Paedophilia is acceptable to Queer theory.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 28/08/2023 10:28

PotteringPondering · 28/08/2023 10:12

Love your erudite contributions to this thread, and your username.

I now plan to identify as a pretentious wanker groundling in a hat who laughs at jokes no one else does.

You are very kind, but “erudite” makes me smile. I bloody hated Shakespeare at school, couldn’t see the point or relevance of thirty bored teenagers reading language that was so obscure the opposite page was full of explanatory notes.

i got dragged to a matinee at The Globe not long after it opened as it was only a fiver. To say it was a revelation would not be an understatement. Seeing the plays in an approximation of how they would have been staged originally suddenly made sense to me - and now I’ve seen many plays in many of different places but I hold the Globe in great affection for being that place that turned it on for me. To see them forgetting their original mandate to use the space to explore the plays in ways you couldn’t do in a modern theatre makes me very sad.

GCAcademic · 28/08/2023 10:30

You just know it will get a five star review from the Guardian, though.

The RSC recently had an age-blind production of this play which was at least a more original approach to ‘blind’ casting.

Rudderneck · 28/08/2023 10:31

I don't like gender blind casting at the best of times. Even when it's clear who the actor is supposed to be, I keep thinking, "woman pretending to be a bloke/man pretending to be a woman," and it's a real distraction.

Possibly I have seen it where that didn't twig for me, and I am ok with that. I am entirely happy with actors playing any cross sex, cross race, or cross species role, with or without the aid of theater tools like make-up and prosthetics, so long as I find it convincing, which is to say I am not constantly aware of the subterfuge. But it is not an easy task in most cases to accomplish. Men dressed as giraffes always seem to look like men dressed as giraffes, unless you are going for an extremely abstract kind of production.

I sometimes feel like we are in a period like some mid 20th century film and television, where it was normal to rewrite classics to make them more palatable for the masses, making Sherlock Holmes a romantic lead or whatever. It was pretty shit productions then, and it is now too.

PotteringPondering · 28/08/2023 11:26

PatatiPatatras · 28/08/2023 01:35

All the world is a... cult recruitment ground?

😆

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Ofcourseshecan · 28/08/2023 12:52

PatatiPatatras · 28/08/2023 01:35

All the world is a... cult recruitment ground?

😁
and all the penis-people and womb-havers merely players ….

lordloveadog · 28/08/2023 12:53

Every generation really does think it has invented sex.

There's a Charles Paris mystery which takes the mickey out of a 'progressive' director doing something like this to the play and that's years old.

Iirc the twist there is that both the male and female roles end up played by one egotistical man.

Nowt new under the sun.

FroodwithaKaren · 28/08/2023 12:53

The never ending arrogance of those who believe they're enlightened enough to 'correct' everyone and everything, even those who died centuries ago, because obviously they know so much better and have come along to fix things.

Bores.

Ofcourseshecan · 28/08/2023 13:08

I saw a similar production of Henry V a few years ago. Loved seeing women playing the monarch and other leaders — that looked realistic and inspiring.

But it was ruined for me by seeing the princess played by a bearded man. That was just nonsense, and pointless. Theatre is meant to create a world you lose yourself in, even while it may challenge your preconceptions. Women as war leaders, fine. A bearded adult male claiming to be a princess, no way.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 28/08/2023 13:15

A bearded adult male claiming to be a princess, no way

I'm sure it's all meant to be brave and transgressive and boundary pushing and make us think but the only thing it makes me think is 'Grow the fuck up.'

PotteringPondering · 28/08/2023 13:49

Oh yes. Forgot to add there was a rope pulley above the audience, where hanging letters with inspirational queer messages about many ways to love were displayed, while the actors sashayed below.

Needless to say, not lines from the play.

I'm all in favour of reimagining Shakespeare, and a bit of gender nonconformity. But this felt like a triumph of propaganda over art. Like a Soviet film about tractor quotas. Or a cheesy 70s evangelistic rock concert where everything builds to the altar-call.

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Mummy08m · 28/08/2023 17:55

PotteringPondering · 28/08/2023 13:49

Oh yes. Forgot to add there was a rope pulley above the audience, where hanging letters with inspirational queer messages about many ways to love were displayed, while the actors sashayed below.

Needless to say, not lines from the play.

I'm all in favour of reimagining Shakespeare, and a bit of gender nonconformity. But this felt like a triumph of propaganda over art. Like a Soviet film about tractor quotas. Or a cheesy 70s evangelistic rock concert where everything builds to the altar-call.

At this point I would genuinely prefer pro-agricultural propaganda. Give me the-harvest-needs-You ads over Costa mastectomy cartoons any day.

Sorry to sound flippant. It's really dreadful if you think too hard about it.

PatatiPatatras · 28/08/2023 19:14

Ofcourseshecan · 28/08/2023 12:52

😁
and all the penis-people and womb-havers merely players ….

They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays ALL the parts

QueenHippolyta · 28/08/2023 19:31

EmpressaurusOfCats · 28/08/2023 10:06

I’m sick of it, personally.

And ‘queerness’ and gender have sod all to do with LGB rights.

This Lesbian is also dead sick of it too.
I have zero interest in the TQ+

I'm convinced people are going to hate us for all this crap.

Ariana12 · 28/08/2023 19:32

it's the preachiness that's so irritating. We ever so slightly older people need to be educated cause we wouldn't otherwise know how to challenge stereotypes - a bit like that recent episode of Casualty where the trans woman ( i.e. a biological male) is first really really gracious about not going on the march because it's for women ( as if) and then saves the day by jumping in and rescuing said women from nasty types....

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