Chloe Cole

[DdraigGoch]

Interview with a detransitioned ex-transboy which touches on about every failing being made by the professionals. It sounds like she is now suing them.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/27/chloe-cole-detransition-awareness-us-congress/

She's had quite a lot of coverage because she testified before Congress https://nypost.com/2023/07/27/detransitioner-tells-congress-her-childhood-was-ruined-by-gender-reassignment/

Needlesss to say some people are saying she is just of front for the right ie ignoring that she is talking about the damage to her own body!

It’s part of a concerted right-wing attack on LGBTQ rights, in which the health of transgender youth is exploited as a pretext for bans on gender-affirming care. It resembles the right-wing attack on abortion rights, another movement that cynically masquerades as an effort to improve healthcare but actually exposes millions of Americans to injury and death for strictly partisan purposes.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-03-02/transgender-patients-chloe-cole-lawsuit-against-kaiser-lgbtq-rights

This is her twitter / X feed https://twitter.com/chooocole?lang=en

The telgraph article is readable at https://archive.ph/eb2WF

I think she peaked Andrew Neil?

She announced she was suing recently. I think there are now 3-5 law suits in the USA now. One from Australia that I know of and Ritchie’s here in the UK. Is the world ready to hear the court sessions I wonder?

Hasn't Ritchie's been discontinued?

Yes Cc's testimony is what set off AN

From the article:

What, though, of the other trans people who are on the record as saying surgery saved theirs? “I’ve met a few trans gender adults, who are older and well-adjusted. I attribute that to the fact that they transitioned after extensive psychological evaluation, and after being given the full picture of how this may affect them in terms of side effects and complications.”

They were also, she adds, “mostly past the age of 25, which is a marker as for when most people’s brains are fully developed and when you have a decent amount of experience in life. They were allowed to grow up, to develop, and could then make a decision to transition. But I’ve never yet met someone who transitioned as a child who isn’t in a horrible situation.”

They have to STOP TRANSING KIDS! Adults can do what they want, but leave the children alone.

Christ. It's absolutely mad that not one adult - her parents or the healthcare professionals - talked to her about the impact it would have on her having children in the future. She's been severely let down by those who should have been looking after her.

Completely agree that adults can do what they want. Look at Jessica Alves. I think the idea that the younger people have cross sex hormones and/or surgery the more likely they are to 'pass' is to blame here. Protagonists (?activists) of this approach are putting more importance on physical appearance than psychological wellbeing. To adapt their alarmist slogan about dead children, 'Better a tall deep voiced happy trans woman than an unhappy trans woman of average stature'. It's not very catchy but the standards for informed consent do not seem to be met for undergoing such life changing treatments.

I do not think its as simple as "adults can do what they want". Firstly, any adult can be a vulnerable adult in some circumstances. Secondly, the postmodern / Queer Theory view that norms should be dismantled and boundaries blurred is simplistic and problematic.

I agree that norms and boundaries should sometimes be questioned, but that should happen cautiously and with full societal debate. There are reasons for norms and boundaries - not always good reasons, but removing them is not necessarily progressive. When it comes to women’s interests, removing sex boundaries and replacing them with a philosophy based on gender stereotypes is regressive.

It worries me that we get rid of one generation’s norms and replace them with another generation’s norms without proper evaluation of the consequences. Society now appears to approve individual choice and autonomy without much understanding of societal pressures, which always make genuine individual freedom hard to achieve. I can’t see a culture (not quite sure those last three letters should be there!) that says body modification is unquestionably fine for any adult, as entirely benign, even regarding things as societally acceptable as breast ‘enhancements’ let alone ‘gender affirming therapy’.

Transparent2 You are right to point out the position of vulnerable adults. I guess this is where the lack of attention to informed consent is so important. We do have legislation for this of course, including Best Interests Assessors for people lacking mental capacity to make a decision like moving into a care home. I am constantly bewildered by how gender identity services have behaved in ways that would not be allowed in any other aemrea of the NHS.

Your point about the normalisation of body modification is definitely worth a thread in itself.

interesting Podcast interview with Chloe Cole. She is almost spookily articulate given her age and the trauma she has experienced. Very impressive. https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/56-chloe-cole-autism-sexual-assault-and-the-real/id1560925652?i=1000596060645

I am ever grateful to every detransioner that publicly speaks out.
I have a ftm who is currently reversing a lot of her image and persona. I use she because my DD is now referring more to feminist issues than LGBT . She is a psychology undergrad. Ideology, cults and gender are covered in her course. I fought her over testosterone, surgery and gender clinics. She hated me, threatened me with suicide and leaving the family home. I held firm. She was a child and although I lost family and friends for being unsupportive of my own DC I told her to find a doctor who would do surgery on her without my consent and be prepared for me to sue them (lawyer family). Not going to happen on my watch. She, now like Chloe Cole wants children. It is sinister.
America culture has a lot answer for. It's ruined so many lives

That's really scary to hear, but brilliant outcome.

Would like to suggest we not only need more detransitioners speaking out, but we need for parents speaking out and showing that uncritical collusion with the affirmative approach is not being a supportive parent.

Good luck to both of you!

@IwantToRetire, gosh I want to retire too!

It is the hardest thing supporting her. I have been abused on social media for speaking out and using the watch and wait approach. Teachers, doctors and friends have said I'm abusing her by questioning the logic of wanting to be a man. She agrees she can't change sex, men have not been kind to her or her straight female friends. They have suffered sex pests at uni. She's a wonderful advocate for her friends. She's tall and angry and very beautiful inside and out. I listened to the podcast up thread. I could have written it. I do wonder if I missed what happened to her (sexual assault at 12) because I was caring for my father in our home. It was 18 hours a day. It broke me. We take our eye off the ball and others step in. The others can have hidden agendas. Glitter families ? I know where I would be sticking that glitter.

gosh I want to retire too!

Exactlly - in relation to this transing of society I am not sure we ever can.

I do wonder if I missed what happened to her (sexual assault at 12) because I was caring for my father in our home. It was 18 hours a day. It broke me. We take our eye off the ball and others step in. The others can have hidden agendas.

That must be really hard. Hard for her to have happened at all, and at 12. And you for not being there for very good reason.

But this is one of the not so hidden agendas.

The MRAs who continue to make women and young girls' lives an endurance test against their misogyny, violence, objectification. Too many young women who have found having breasts turn them into a non-person for men, and are only valued (or assaulted) for what should be unremarkable.

Too many women are seeking a way out of the daily war of being a woman in a male dominated society.

I'm so sorry for what you've been through @Name5

It takes a lot of courage to go against what appears to be the prevailing current. Good on you for fighting for your daughter in the face of all that, and sorry for the loss of your dad

And the guilt comes from all sides, doesn't it? For what it's worth, I was groomed by a family friend at the same sort of age your daughter was assaulted, but I don't blame my parents for what happened. There are evil men in the world who will take advantage of circumstance and there is no excuse for their actions.

@MassiveWordSalad thank you for your words of support. Six years of fighting has been tough. I think my DD is a wonderfully kind, clever and decent person. She means no harm to anyone. There is no way she is a man or could ever be happy as one. I see no masculinity only a love of marvel and crime movies. She bakes, paints and loves kids. What she doesn't like is the filthy catcalls she got from 10. She rejects the 'love island look' but I think gen Z do. Woe betide a boy liking that vibe in their age group. It's passe. I
Iive every day hoping she comes home to tell me she is going back to her birth name. She's never officially changed it. She's had her birth certificate. She wants her own children and we all carry the eczema,/asthma gene so she knows the benefits of breast feeding. We can now talk about stuff like that, two years ago she would have shouted me down. I believe she will end up an amazing arsy feminist with a family and someone who loves her for all her curvy womanhood. She deserves it and they would be super lucky to have her.