Lesbian group seeks human rights exemption to exclude trans women from Melbourne event

[IwantToRetire]

A lesbian community group has applied to the Australian Human Rights Commission for an exemption from anti-discrimination laws to hold an event open only to same-sex attracted, biological women.

The proposed “Lesbians Born Female” event in Melbourne to mark this year’s International Lesbian Day looms as a national test case in the clash between women’s rights and transgender inclusion, with the organisers seeking the right to bar men, straight and bisexual women and transgender women from attending.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/lesbian-group-seeks-human-rights-exemption-to-exclude-trans-women-from-melbourne-event-20230820-p5dxy8.html
also https://archive.md/TXxZU

Application by the Lesbian Action Group for
a Temporary Five Year Exemption
under the Sex Discrimination Act
for a Lesbians Born Female only Event
to Celebrate International Lesbian Day
To be organised by the Lesbian Action Group
at the Pride Centre in St Kilda on Sunday 15 October 2023
This is the actual application https://humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/lesbian_action_group_application_for_a_temporary_exemption_redacted_0.pdf

Gay rights rolled back 50 flipping years…

Five Year Exemption
under the Sex Discrimination Act
for a Lesbians Born Female only Event

I just cant get my head around this.

Surely Lesbians are covered by Sex discrimination.

Why do they need an exemption.

Admittedly I am not familiar with the Australian Sex Discrimination Act.

Maybe it doesn't have single sex exemptions.

Good for them, I hope they are successful.

I hope they are successful too. As a straight woman, I would not be able to attend their event. Fine, no problem at all, I can see it's not for me.
Do you reckon any straight or bisexual women would try to force their way in? Or if they couldn't, to get the event shut down?
No, I didn't think so either.

Goof luck to them.

In Melbourne (Victoria) people can change their sex on their birth certificates if they want (no surgery needed) so single sex provisions are a bit meaningless.

single sex provisions are a bit meaningless

Well you can change the sex on your birth certificate in the UK, but under the UK EA it is possible to apply the single sex exemptions which means an organisation or service is only for those of the same biological sex.

That's why I wonder if the Australian EA had single sex exemptions, as the challenge to a lesbian event only for biological women, wouldn't be on the basis of sex but on gender re-assignment.

So that's why I said up thread, I didn't under stand the legal challenge being about sex descrimination.

If there is an "decrimination" ie excluding trans women, it is on the basis of gender reassignment.

Australian has single sex provisions but the law isn't clear as to whether sex refers to biological sex or legal sex.

I'm curious how it works if you have single sex provisions on the basis of biological sex (as they should be) but all legal documents showing non biological sex. Seems to put providers of the single sex services in a very difficult situation.

Australia’s Sex Discrimination Act has both sex and gender listed (Thanks Julia Gillard!) and it’s not clear what can be prioritised. This is why Tickle vs Giggle is so important because it will determine just this.

If you are Australian you have until Tuesday Australian time to make a submission. https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemption-applications-under-sex-discrimination-act-1984-cth

DM me for drafting help

I disagree, this is about people of one sexual orientation and one sex reclaiming an event that was theirs.

No different to black women wanting to hold an event for black people. People of faith wanting to hold an event for just people of that faith etc.

I meant for women… having to beg to have something for themselves.

I understood what you meant. 🙂

Because they can't just hold a Lesbian only event and have that respected.
Because they have to apply to be (hopefully) allowed to have a lesbian only event.
Because they are same sex attracted and they mean same sex and not same gender.
Because for some people the word 'lesbian' now includes men and they mean female only.

Due to all this, it is like gay rights have been rolled back 50 years.

I'm curious how it works if you have single sex provisions on the basis of biological sex (as they should be) but all legal documents showing non biological sex. Seems to put providers of the single sex services in a very difficult situation.

In the UK it works because in advertising a job or services you say you are doing so under the Single Sex exemptions. These clearly say that there are certain circumstances, eg support for women who have been raped, where sex means biological sex (not "legal" sex which is what a GRC implies).

But the UK EA does not have anything about gender - it references trans gender.

@BabyStopCryin sorry if I misunderstood - to me 50 years ago meant something different.

@IwantToRetire , I'm more wondering what happens if the applicant insists they are female, and all their ID backs them up. How does the provider confidentially say no I can tell you are male. I get it's usually pretty obvious, but in some cases it might be harder (hormones, make-up etc).

Seems it would be much easier to retain biological sex on ID instead of than having this meaningless 'legal sex' on birth certificates and the like.

They don't want to exclude "trans women", they want to exclude men. All men, including men who wish they were women

That seems pretty reasonable to me.

Well sadly they have been overruled. Women can not do anything without the male overlords.

Watching this with interest. Are the Australian government going to say out loud that lesbians aren’t allowed to get together without men present?

"Holding a lesbian event is a human rights violation"

"Human rights" claims sometimes seem little different to making up bizarre commandments from a claimed deity.

Personally I don't want rule by left wing NGOs and judges, telling us what our "human rights" are, when the law in practice is flexible and it just comes down to what the particular judges decide on any particular day, and it's not like there is a proven moral principle that is underlying the law.

Thanks for all the comments - today Australian time is the deadline for submissions. If you’re Australian, please email the address I provided in the link posted earlier, saying Section 39 of the Sex Discrimination Act already allows voluntary bodies including the Lesbian Action Group to have membership comprising and services exclusively for one sex and/or one sexual orientation.

DM me if you want more drafting ideas eg on sex vs gender identity in the Act.