Westminster Hour BBC Radio 4 - Rosie Duffield

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Panel discussion about Gender recognition. Just listening now
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001pt2m
Starts around 45 minutes in
Lloyd Russell-Moyle trying desperately to sound reasonable

Definite change in the air!

thanks, OP, will bookmark and listen tomorrow.

"Lloyd Russell-Moyle trying desperately to sound reasonable" 😂

The problem is that they have brilliant minds! Why they have allowed the inmates to take over the asylum is inexplicable.

Lloyd Russell-Moyle explained the Labour position in moving away from self-ID. He said there should be a demedicalised route but with some form of "verification" from someone professionally qualified. He was asked whether he regretted how Rosie Duffield had been treated and his response was that "We've all been abused" and that he'd been abused. The debate had got too heated. It's had an awful impact on the trans community who feel less safe than they did 10-15 years ago. The problem was the Tories had said they were introducing self-ID without explaining how they were going to do it. RD was in the studio and was asked to comment. She said LRM spoke sense but there was a huge amount of abuse directed at her and to other women. Labour still haven't laid out their plan, despite what they're saying. Also, the Labour Women's Declaration has again been refused a stall this year. The isolation she's been subject to hasn't changed.

In listening one could get the impression that the presenter of the programme was peddling some trans activism-lite. The presenter on that programme usually aim to be noticeably non-partisan. But the guests were not having it. There was definitely sympathy for RD.

We have all been abused but we have not all been abusers.

Lloyd Russell-Moyle trying desperately to sound reasonable

Presumably he's been warned about his prior conduct. Until now, unreasonable has been, very much, his personal brand.

'He was asked whether he regretted how Rosie Duffield had been treated and his response was that "We've all been abused" and that he'd been abused.'

can't even bring himself to say it's been bad that Rosie has had death and rape threats? I am astonished that anyone could vote for this misogynist. His woman-hatred is impossible to hide.

The language used in these radio 4 discussions remains muddled. Nobody can change their legal gender, because nobody has a legal gender - we have a sex. Seven or eight minutes simply isn't enough on this issue and it's unsurprising that the public are confused.
We need a series of programs dedicated to this topic, with a range of voices, so that people can get a real handle on the implications of 'trans rights' on the rights of women and children in recent years.

It was the presenter's use of don't-think-of-what-the-words-mean language and his soft support for the trans activist position, both sides, needing to shut down RD at one point, that made me think he's never given any real thought to the issue and had lazily defaulted an approach of "we're the BBC, we're progressive".

Enjoyed that. Both sides clearly think LRM is a nasty little prick, even if they don't say so precisely.

Who was the other woman?

Jo Tanner - journalist turned PR/media person. Only heard the intro last night so did not hear discussion about trans rights:

https://apcoworldwide.com/people/jo-tanner/

Somebody must have advised LRM that it's better to go on the radio than TV as listeners won't be antagonised by his angry face.

Thank you for link.

"He was asked whether he regretted how Rosie Duffield had been treated"

Why the passive tense? He was not a bystander. They should have asked if he regretted how he had treated her.

I actually once had the chance to ask LRM in person what abuse he’d had in this debate.

He said he’d been called a misogynist.

I asked him if anyone had suggested he should be raped to death with a broken bottle and slid a bunch of screenshots from Twitter across to him, all from TRAs saying what they’d like to see happen to “TERFs”.

If he talks like a misogynist and intimidates women like a misogynist...

What did he say to your evidence?

Oh gosh, I wonder why anyone would suggest LRM is a misogynist!

As you can see on the other thread about Cheryl Hole, there are differences in how women and men are expected to behave.

A woman complaining at misogyny, often by very calmly and factually stating 'this is misogyny' is labelled a 'twisted bigot' and this is 'hate speech' and 'abuse'.

If she explains why she objects to being called a 'hole' or being parodied by a man wearing fake breasts, she is pilloried.

If she objects to Lloyd Russell Mole's intemperate speech and behaviour, she is guilty of 'abuse'.

It's abhorrent to say that a woman calling a man 'misogynist' is the equivalent of a rape or death threat, and this is exactly what LRM is claiming.

In listening one could get the impression that the presenter of the programme was peddling some trans activism-lite. The presenter on that programme usually aim to be noticeably non-partisan. But the guests were not having it. There was definitely sympathy for RD.

Yes, there definitely was. One of the guests (the tory man) called out LRM's deliberately intimidating behaviour towards women in the HOC.