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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Social work and trans identifying teens

61 replies

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 10:57

I'm currently on a fast track, post grad social work programme and have just finished a 5 week summer institute ahead of starting placement in September.

We had a lecture with LGBT+ anti abuse charity, Galop, last week and I am quite concerned by some of the teaching. There was a Q&A at the end of the session, and one of the participants asked a (very valid imo) question around balancing sensitivity towards trans identifying older children and the need to be aware that ROGD can be an indicator of child sexual abuse.

The guest lecturer from the charity completely shut the question down with a very swift response, something along the lines of "That's completely incorrect and not a known sign of child sexual abuse"

I was surprised at this and very concerned that this was deemed acceptable information to give to 450+ trainee social workers, most of whom are very young/straight out of undergrad. Basically being told, affirm the identity without question and ignore any concerns that there is anything more going on than #transjoy.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/08/2023 11:32

The guest lecturer from the charity completely shut the question down with a very swift response, something along the lines of "That's completely incorrect and not a known sign of child sexual abuse"

I doubt they have any specialist knowledge in this area. I imagine they just brought them in to promote LGBT awareness.

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 11:36

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/08/2023 11:32

The guest lecturer from the charity completely shut the question down with a very swift response, something along the lines of "That's completely incorrect and not a known sign of child sexual abuse"

I doubt they have any specialist knowledge in this area. I imagine they just brought them in to promote LGBT awareness.

Agree...but to refute with such certainty, positioning herself as an absolute authority, was reckless and dangerous. There were SW practice tutors present, none of which stepped in to provide any balance or specialist knowledge.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/08/2023 11:38

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/08/2023 11:32

The guest lecturer from the charity completely shut the question down with a very swift response, something along the lines of "That's completely incorrect and not a known sign of child sexual abuse"

I doubt they have any specialist knowledge in this area. I imagine they just brought them in to promote LGBT awareness.

Agreed Eresh. But that's the problem - they're a random from a LGBT charity yet they felt empowered to shut down a legitimate query about safeguarding despite their lack of safeguarding expertise / qualifications.
The one thing we know about safeguarding is that you rarely shut it down with a "that's not a safeguarding issue". You ask questions and tease out the facts & context before you decide.

You're right to be concerned OP but social care / safeguarding (along with the law & politicians) were one of the first professions to be targeted by trans activists. There's a reason for that.

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 11:40

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/08/2023 11:38

Agreed Eresh. But that's the problem - they're a random from a LGBT charity yet they felt empowered to shut down a legitimate query about safeguarding despite their lack of safeguarding expertise / qualifications.
The one thing we know about safeguarding is that you rarely shut it down with a "that's not a safeguarding issue". You ask questions and tease out the facts & context before you decide.

You're right to be concerned OP but social care / safeguarding (along with the law & politicians) were one of the first professions to be targeted by trans activists. There's a reason for that.

I want to raise it with the course provider, but am concerned that I risk my placement on the course by sticking my head above the parapet.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/08/2023 11:42

Social work in academia is almost totally captured. Be very careful.

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 11:48

YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/08/2023 11:42

Social work in academia is almost totally captured. Be very careful.

This is my concern, for sure.
Part of me is thinking "Just leave it, I can ignore the nonsense on the academic side and just focus on the actual job, case-by-case, when practicing"
But the rest of me is screaming internally about all the children who are being harmed by gender woo, and those who are presenting with GD as a direct result of trauma and/or mental health/neurodiversity (leaving social contagion aside).

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concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 11:53

@MrsOvertonsWindow Thanks for this, I'll have a thorough perusal today.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/08/2023 11:54

One way of looking at it is to recognise that this is akin to turning a tanker around. Many women retain their jobs by keeping quiet and contribute through their own professional practice and by contributing to the larger group challenges.

Children need social workers who are not captured by gender woo woo, who are critical thinkers and who will be there as this car crash of gender ideology collapses.

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 11:58

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/08/2023 11:54

One way of looking at it is to recognise that this is akin to turning a tanker around. Many women retain their jobs by keeping quiet and contribute through their own professional practice and by contributing to the larger group challenges.

Children need social workers who are not captured by gender woo woo, who are critical thinkers and who will be there as this car crash of gender ideology collapses.

Fantastic analogy! And very helpful way of reframing.
I suppose if I just keep my spidey senses on alert when working with children, gently and safely raise concerns where relevant, I can just do what I've set out to do (safeguard children) and, as you say, be there armed with my knowledge and critical thinking capabilities when the wheels eventually fall off.

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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 20/08/2023 12:04

Do you get to give any feedback? That question should not have been met with flat denial but the evidence should have been properly explored.

I don't know about ROGD as such but it came up in Hannah Barnes' investigation of the Tavistock GIDS that a high proportion of the young patients claiming gender distressed had been abused. Dr Hilary Cass used the term "diagnostic overshadowing", I guess that can happen in social work as well as medicine?

And I would take what Galop says on the subject with a grain of salt. They are not a neutral or balanced source of information. Lectures from specialist but politicised organisations have some useful content but they need to be put in context and not just swallowed whole. They can have useful and interesting information but they're not a reliable guide to practice. Is that distinction made clear in your course?

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 12:06

Also, I was a full-on, card-carrying member of the wokerati until about 2018. I've had 5 years to unpick this madness. Others haven't.
When anyone questioning the dominant narrative or raising concerns is labelled a bigot/TERF/far-right, it prevents still-captured minds from engaging with GC voices..."Don't listen to what those bigots say...TWAW!"
But I am noticing a sea-change...and the other students in my small local authority unit are quietly GC too (as, I suspect, is our Consultant Social Worker) so I will have a "safe space" (nauseating term) to speak about this on a local level.

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concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 12:12

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 20/08/2023 12:04

Do you get to give any feedback? That question should not have been met with flat denial but the evidence should have been properly explored.

I don't know about ROGD as such but it came up in Hannah Barnes' investigation of the Tavistock GIDS that a high proportion of the young patients claiming gender distressed had been abused. Dr Hilary Cass used the term "diagnostic overshadowing", I guess that can happen in social work as well as medicine?

And I would take what Galop says on the subject with a grain of salt. They are not a neutral or balanced source of information. Lectures from specialist but politicised organisations have some useful content but they need to be put in context and not just swallowed whole. They can have useful and interesting information but they're not a reliable guide to practice. Is that distinction made clear in your course?

I'll look into Hilary Cass, thank you.

We are 'allowed' to provide feedback, but I'm unsure how well this would be received. The programme itself is very woke on a lot of issues, have given misleading information/data (USA-centric rather than focussed on England/UK) on a few social justice issues.
There was no distinction made between individual expertise of outside organisations and how that relates to our social work practice.

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AlisonDonut · 20/08/2023 12:16

Kids referred to GIDS had ten times the number of parents on the sex offenders register compared to the general population.

10 times.

So their assertion is completely false.

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 12:17

AlisonDonut · 20/08/2023 12:16

Kids referred to GIDS had ten times the number of parents on the sex offenders register compared to the general population.

10 times.

So their assertion is completely false.

Flippin' heck!!!

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AlisonDonut · 20/08/2023 12:19

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 12:17

Flippin' heck!!!

Go buy Hannah Barnes 'Time to Think' before you do anything else today!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/08/2023 12:21

The programme itself is very woke on a lot of issues, have given misleading information/data (USA-centric rather than focussed on England/UK) on a few social justice issues.

SW is now obsessed with largely identity-based social justice issues. There is very little taught about evidence-based practice anymore.

It's a travesty of its former self.

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 12:21

AlisonDonut · 20/08/2023 12:19

Go buy Hannah Barnes 'Time to Think' before you do anything else today!

Snap! I had just ordered it following comment from @AmaryllisNightAndDay

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rogdmum · 20/08/2023 12:23

If you have time and are on Twitter (as they don’t seem to have a website at the moment) you could DM the Evidence-Based Social Work Alliance (@ ebswa) and let them know about your experience. They may have suggestions on how best to phrase any feedback etc.

Circumferences · 20/08/2023 12:25

AlisonDonut · 20/08/2023 12:16

Kids referred to GIDS had ten times the number of parents on the sex offenders register compared to the general population.

10 times.

So their assertion is completely false.

I must say, I've been GC since forever and been on this board a lot and I've never come across this statistic.
I believe it, Don't get me wrong. It makes perfect sense.

Do you mind if I ask do you have a reference or resource for that statistic, simple so I can share it with confidence?

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 12:25

YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/08/2023 12:21

The programme itself is very woke on a lot of issues, have given misleading information/data (USA-centric rather than focussed on England/UK) on a few social justice issues.

SW is now obsessed with largely identity-based social justice issues. There is very little taught about evidence-based practice anymore.

It's a travesty of its former self.

I noticed this. There was a not-inconsiderate degree of tongue biting done by yours-truly during workshops.
I raised a question in one workshop as to why all the case scenerios involving trans identifying/NB children had their gender identity and pronouns but not their biological sex...and the answer given was that we must respect the gender identity of everyone, even children. Righty-ho! It's not like one of the scenarios involved a trans-identifying child being groomed by an older man online. 🙄

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concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 12:27

Circumferences · 20/08/2023 12:25

I must say, I've been GC since forever and been on this board a lot and I've never come across this statistic.
I believe it, Don't get me wrong. It makes perfect sense.

Do you mind if I ask do you have a reference or resource for that statistic, simple so I can share it with confidence?

Yes, the source would be useful.

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RoobarbandCustud · 20/08/2023 12:27

@AlisonDonut where can I find the source for this please?

concernsocialworkstudent · 20/08/2023 12:27

rogdmum · 20/08/2023 12:23

If you have time and are on Twitter (as they don’t seem to have a website at the moment) you could DM the Evidence-Based Social Work Alliance (@ ebswa) and let them know about your experience. They may have suggestions on how best to phrase any feedback etc.

Thank you for this, I will do.

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