Open category for transgender swimmers

[AmaListening]

www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/world-aquatics-debut-open-category-races-transgender-swimmers-rcna100174

Now they just need to transfer all the TW “records”/“wins”/etc out of the female category (where they should never have even been), and record the correct FEMALE winners of the female category.

Yes!

It isn't clear from the article but they already have men's and women's categories so this is like "non-binary" - it's basically an additional category in which men can win prizes and medals. It's discrimination against female swimmers who will only have one category to race in where they have a realistic chance of winning.
It's also a pointless category because it is not based on a performance-related characteristic.

Nothing to celebrate here, unfortunately.

But surely it is to be celebrated, as it will keep men out of the women’s category? Unless I have misunderstood?

Though really we only need two categories: Open and (single-sex) Women’s.

It’s good because it stops complaints about being “excluded”. Bad because of reasons above. Hopefully it will be shelved eventually.

Under the new eligibility policy which was published in March or April of this year, men/boys who have gone through puberty are ineligible for the women's category, so (in practice) men are already out of the women's category.

It will be interesting to see how popular this Open category is and how long everyone can ignore that all the winners are male.

As soon as men realise they won't be able to enter the women's events and win, and they'll have to move to the mixed event where they will have actual competition, they won't enter and no doubt claim discrimination and the mixed event will disappear.

Hopefully in a few years it will just go back to female and male separate. 🤞🤞🤞🤞

I don’t know why anyone would be hoping that the open category ceases to exist. It’s a perfectly fair and transparent attempt to accommodate more swimmers and remove the option to invade single sex events. It’s no more offensive or “wrong” to me than a mixed sex changing room in addition to two single sex ones is.

I agree. Open and women’s, it’s all that’s needed. But if having 3 solves the issue than fine. I just get so worked up that men think they can dress as a women and that makes them a woman it doesn’t, they should still compete with men. If they want to wear a sparkly pink swim suit while doing it that up to them

It could go two ways. Either as you describe, or it could become a popular second-tier category. Men who just miss out on finals might move to that Open category so they get to be a national or continental or world champion when they wouldn't otherwise have that level of achievement on their CV. Post retirement income, I'm thinking.

Next question. Will there be separate changing rooms for this third category?

Or will we still have the woman-LARPing males in with the women?

But men’s can be “open”, as in other sports. For anyone who is a man.

@borntobequiet yes it could be. How does it matter if it isn’t?

@Mummumgem , @Ohthatsabitshit
Men, including men who claim to be women, are already excluded from the women's category under FINA/World Acquatics' new eligibility policy published earlier this year. So the Open category does not solve anything.
It's also an additional cost and pointless extra admin, IMO.

Women's (ie single sex) and Open categories make sense. Unfortunately an Open category in addition to single sex Women's and Men's categories does not. It simply gives men twice as many categories as women, because women don't have a hope of winning against men - that's the whole reason for having two single sex categories in the guest place. So elite male athletes will win the Men's categories and mediocre male athletes will win the Open categories.

The Boston marathon (the one which had women runners physically dragged from the field until the 1970s) introduced a non-binary category this year. After it was won by a male runner, there were complaints by other enbie runners that there should be two medals in the NB category: AFAB NB and AMAB NB. Apparently it's not fair otherwise.

I think it's fine, it keeps men out of women's sports and eases the pressure and cries of discrimination and exclusion. Realistically it will probably fetter out over time once men realise they're invariably just competing against eachother in this category and aren't benefitting from their advantage as they do in women's comps.

It is strange. I used to do a sport in which I was technically very good. I had all the physical attributes of excellence, bar one, which is very important in that sport. Sadly, for me, I was never able to compete above club level.
Should I have agitated for a special category to accommodate me? That would have been ridiculous (I obtained a coaching qualification and enjoyed success in the sport in that way).
There are all sorts of differences that discriminate in sport, both physical and mental, short of actual physical disability - for which there are various accredited programmes - but no special categories in “regular” competition. I genuinely don’t understand why gender ideology thinks it should be the exception (well I do, but it’s not rational).

Men/men who claim to be women are already excluded from the female category as of March/April this year. The pressure has already been resisted, thanks to a members' vote overwhelmingly in favour of a women's category for females only. The Open category was promised as a sop to the Genderism lobby, but I am quite surprised to see it so soon.

And to be honest, do we think that if the female category was not protected, men who claim to be women would stay out, no matter how many other categories they could enter? The presence of women is what they are after. Protection of the female category is what stops them.

It's mad, isn't it?

If I was under 5’2” and brilliant at basketball I’d probably love to play in a height restricted category. I don’t think it would take anything from taller players.

I’m sure it would be great fun, and super if you could find enough people to set up an informal league of some sort. But I think you underestimate the amount of organisation needed to set up such exceptions in officially recognised competitions.
Im my sport (rowing) there are lots of different categories based on sex, age and weight. In many competitions, there are no entries in some categories, because there are too few competitors matching the criteria. But every category has to be (potentially) catered for, rules formulated and so on. This takes time and trouble in a sector notoriously dependent on unpaid volunteer work.

Swim England are introducing these rules for all events on or after 1 September (for all ages; typically the youngest swimmers are aged 9).

Their 2 categories are:

• Female – athletes with a birth sex of female
• Open – athletes with a birth sex of male, trans or non-binary competitors and any competitor not eligible for the female category

So remove categories if they become undersubscribed. It’s not hard. If there is no appetite for an open race then it will die a natural death. Personally I think that would be a GOOD way of demonstrating reality.

So remove categories if they become undersubscribed.

Well, yes. But in some sports it’s a balancing act. You might get lots of entries in a particular category in one regional competition, but not in another. Sport does generally try its best to be inclusive (not least to increase funding).

An open category for trans/non binary/whatever is probably a waste of time in the long run in any sport (as well as unfairly offering more opportunities for men), but in the meantime, it might be worth it to stop the whining about being excluded. I have no doubt it will die a death.

I'm not sure the third category would be unpopular. As has already been said, it could well be popular with men who haven't a chance of winning in the men's category.

The CNN story on the same subject says "The new category will be open for “all sex and gender identities”". So I don't think men would even have to "identify" as anything other than men.