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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Brooklyn 99 sex reveal

37 replies

bluebeardswife7 · 17/08/2023 22:23

I am watching Brooklyn 99 with ds. It already ticks all the boxes with its lack of stereotypes and super modern and very interesting comedy. One of the couple just said they were having a sex reveal party. I know mumsnetters are not a big fan of a gender reveal party bet they can get on board with a sex reveal. Even though it sounds HmmHmmHmm

OP posts:
Whatsnewpussyhat · 18/08/2023 01:53

They were revealing the sex of their baby boy. And?

They were using correct, factual language.

MotherEarthisaTerf · 18/08/2023 05:16

It stood out when I watched it too. Really nice to see the term sex used in place of gender.

HermioneWeasley · 18/08/2023 05:31

Yes, I noticed the use of the term as well, which must have been deliberate as it’s not the used phrase.

PatatiPatatras · 18/08/2023 06:44

Gender reveal party always sounded quite odd to me. Sex reveal is way more accurate. Still can't fathom why you'd do one...

DeanElderberry · 18/08/2023 07:02

I watched that last week, and weirdly was thinking about it in the middle of the night and wondering whether anyone on MN had commented that the makers of B99 didn't go down the gender road. Such a good show, in so many ways. I'll be watching the last season soon (DVD not streaming) and I'm going to miss it.

Might get myself a box of the Good Place for Christmas - it uses some of the same actors (and jokes, but hey).

Original poster
bluebeardswife7 · 20/08/2023 22:17

I forgot I posted this. But yes, it was nice to hear factual language.

OP posts:
Empowermenomore · 20/08/2023 23:40

Gender reveal on Corrie a few weeks back.
many people don’t realise they are two different concepts.

Empowermenomore · 20/08/2023 23:41

I like B99

ArabeIIaScott · 21/08/2023 00:01

Will they play 'sex bomb' by Tom Jones as the glitter thing goes off?

bobbicunliffe · 21/08/2023 12:32

I like it too, but there's 1 episode towards the end where they do some gender stuff- its one where theyre babysitting girls and have to have awkward conversations about racism and sexism with the children. so the kids are confused about racism, and amy says "well you know how women can be discriminated against" and the kids say "well then i dont want to be a woman!" and jake goes "oh that's a whole other conversation, you can be who you want to be!" i think the actor has said a lot of trans ideological stuff on social media

334bu · 21/08/2023 14:02

Surprising then that so many young girls only discover their gender identity , when they hit puberty, and other 4 and 3 year old children find their identities as animals and superheroes.

countrypunk · 21/08/2023 14:06

@DadJoke Oh go and read the Cass Review, troll.

Errwrong · 21/08/2023 14:32

When people erroneously state that gender reveals itself at age 3-4 they are misusing the fact that two big developmental stages happen at this age.
Firstly, this is the first time children start to think about sex in any real terms.
It is also the time children start to overextend the use of stereotypes. They have been exposed to them, many since birth. At this age they start to apply hard and fast rules with no nuance.

Before the current gender ideology nonsense it was referred to as the gender schema. Like other schemas, it's children making sense of the world with firsthand knowledge. Some lean into stereotypes, some away and some not bothered. All gain knowledge that sex is fixed by age seven or so and knowledge of stereotypes grows right into puberty and beyond.

The existence of the gender schema is not proof of gender ideology. Just as children testing the rules of gravity by pouring and letting things pour is not proof that gravity can be switched on and off. It's just a child's understandingly limited understanding of the world.

countrypunk · 21/08/2023 15:07

@Errwrong Thank you for that thoughtful response. Really interesting.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/08/2023 15:10

Errwrong · 21/08/2023 14:32

When people erroneously state that gender reveals itself at age 3-4 they are misusing the fact that two big developmental stages happen at this age.
Firstly, this is the first time children start to think about sex in any real terms.
It is also the time children start to overextend the use of stereotypes. They have been exposed to them, many since birth. At this age they start to apply hard and fast rules with no nuance.

Before the current gender ideology nonsense it was referred to as the gender schema. Like other schemas, it's children making sense of the world with firsthand knowledge. Some lean into stereotypes, some away and some not bothered. All gain knowledge that sex is fixed by age seven or so and knowledge of stereotypes grows right into puberty and beyond.

The existence of the gender schema is not proof of gender ideology. Just as children testing the rules of gravity by pouring and letting things pour is not proof that gravity can be switched on and off. It's just a child's understandingly limited understanding of the world.

Lovely post. Let's hope it's read and reflected on by those with a limited understanding of child development

Holly60 · 21/08/2023 15:23

DadJoke · 21/08/2023 13:57

It was great, because of course, because gender identity develops around age 3 or 4. And that's why they did it.

It's show a nuanced respect for transgender rights, because at that stage you only know the sex assigned at birth.

I'm surprised people here are happy with it, though.

https://meaww.com/brooklyn-nine-nine-season-7-episode-10-sex-reveal-party-respect-gender-identity-baby-shrek-recap

That's sort of how I read the episode too.

The kind of 'oh well we don't know their gender yet' kind of thing.

I think people who like to separate the meanings of sex and gender might argue that when a baby is born you can only tell their sex not their gender.

This is why I DON'T have an issue with the term 'gender reveal', because it's using gender as synonymous with sex, which I actually think makes much more sense for the vast majority of people.

When people start saying 'it's SEX not GENDER' I tend to think, 'well why are you separating them?' When gender just meant sex but not the in bed with your partner type, it was much less controversial.

DeanElderberry · 21/08/2023 15:47

When gender just meant grammar it wasn't controversial at all. Personally, I've turned my clock back to ca 1990 and will never again use gender in any context other than grammar .

DadJoke · 21/08/2023 18:14

countrypunk · 21/08/2023 14:06

@DadJoke Oh go and read the Cass Review, troll.

I have, it has no bearing on this discussion, and disagreeing with gender critical people does not make me a troll.

countrypunk · 21/08/2023 19:37

@DadJoke When you start uncritically declaring that children have a gender identity at the age of 3 or 4, the Cass Review absolutely does have relevance here.

Maybe read @Errwrong post and then have a bit of a think.

Telling children that there is a special girl feeling, a special boy feeling and a special none slash in betweenie feeling and that they can declare themselves the opposite or no sex is child abuse.

mauvish · 21/08/2023 19:39

My DD had a scan which revealed baby's sex.

"Do you want to know the sex?" she asked me.
"Yes please! I'd like to know" answered I.
"Gender or sex?" said her OH.

grrrrrrrr

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/08/2023 21:50

It's show a nuanced respect for transgender rights, because at that stage you only know the sex assigned at birth.

If sex was "assigned at birth" you wouldn't be able to have a "sex reveal party" before birth ConfusedGrin

You and the fans thinking that it's some sort of trans rights statement are all a tad confused, aren't you.

DadJoke · 22/08/2023 13:01

countrypunk · 21/08/2023 19:37

@DadJoke When you start uncritically declaring that children have a gender identity at the age of 3 or 4, the Cass Review absolutely does have relevance here.

Maybe read @Errwrong post and then have a bit of a think.

Telling children that there is a special girl feeling, a special boy feeling and a special none slash in betweenie feeling and that they can declare themselves the opposite or no sex is child abuse.

3 to 4 is when gender identity starts to develop, not when it's set in stone. Try a bit of nuance.

countrypunk · 22/08/2023 13:22

@DadJoke Is that the best you can do? I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here. Yes, children start to become aware of the stereotypes imposed on them because of their sex at a very young age.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 22/08/2023 16:23

3 to 4 is when gender identity starts to develop, not when it's set in stone

Gender identity ideology is made up quasi religious nonsense and young children claiming to be the opposite sex are being fed this nonsense narrative by parents.

To the other 99% it's simply a child developing a personality.