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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It took female MPs from both parties to change Starmer’s stance on gender politics

33 replies

IwantToRetire · 15/08/2023 20:19

Private cross-party meetings for politicians worried about the erosion of sex-based rights encouraged the Labour leader to start speaking up at last

... many of us have missed the way this debate has also broken down party boundaries. It has brought together a group of MPs who are in no way like-minded. One of them is Baroness Jenkin. Jenkin and Conservative colleagues found themselves offering a safe space to Labour MPs who were at odds with their party’s policy on gender self-identification.

The most high-profile of these is Rosie Duffield, who has previously said she feels as though she is in an “abusive relationship” with her party – hardly something she would say lightly, given that she also escaped domestic abuse a few years ago. Even though the gender-critical Tories enjoy spending time with Duffield, she is manifestly not one of them: she disagrees vehemently with the two-child benefit limit, for instance, and doesn’t have much truck with the other views of the more strident Tory campaigners such as Miriam Cates. Yet she and other Labour women have ended up confiding in those Conservatives because they have found the atmosphere in their party so hostile for the past few years.

Many of these women regularly join cross-party meetings held in parliament for politicians worried about the erosion of sex-based rights. They were set up two years ago by the three gender-critical campaign groups in the main parties: Labour Women’s Declaration (LWD), Conservatives for Women and Liberal Voice for Women. Initially, they met monthly and over Zoom – more recently their meetings, private and under the Chatham House rule, have gone weekly. They include peers and MPs who gather to hear from experts in sex and gender, transgender people, people who have detransitioned and clinicians.

Everyone involved agrees that the gender-critical movement in politics was slow to get going, and didn’t notice the many changes to policy that ministers, public agencies and other organisations were agreeing to without much public fuss – until it almost seemed too late. In the past couple of years, activists have gone into a frenzy of organising to try to catch up and change party and government policy. As Jenkin says, it was easier in the Conservatives, if only because senior figures, including Sunak, saw the topic as a way of undermining Starmer. But the real prize was Labour party policy, because the debate is still largely happening on the left, not in the Tory party.

This organising paid off at the end of July when the Labour national policy forum met to thrash out the basic direction of the manifesto. One of the decisions it reached, supported by the leader’s office, was that the party would no longer have self-identification as its official policy in relation to Gender Reform Act reform. Many LWD activists are angry that there has been no acknowledgement of or apology to all the women in the party who have been abused for merely holding what is now Labour policy, and other than a brief comment from Wes Streeting, no apology to Duffield or other female MPs for the way they have been treated. However, all agree that they should now be in the position where to say that biological sex matters isn’t treated as heresy within the party. But it is still not a fully comfortable place to be.

This is from a longer article printed in the Observer, as unlikely the Guardian would have published it, but it still has some of the Guardian's usual weasal words. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/13/keir-starmer-gender-politics-labour

I wonder if it is a positive to have this more publicly known. Or will die hard partyist demand loyalty and insist women dont do anything so independent as meeting with other woman with a common cause that cuts through party lines?

(If there is an existing thread on this let me know and I'll get MNHQ to delete. I did search but nothing came up.)

It took female MPs from both parties to change Starmer’s stance on gender politics | Isabel Hardman

Private cross-party meetings for politicians worried about the erosion of sex-based rights encouraged the Labour leader to start speaking up at last

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/13/keir-starmer-gender-politics-labour

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 16/08/2023 08:33

I think it was the fall of Sturgeon, the cross party women, the poll but the thing that really changed was after The Interview with Stonewall.

He knows that the moment he gets in front of a half decent interviewer on these questions he has no answers. So he had no option but to swivel.

He didn't get his mind changed, his advisers told him to pivot.

SunnyEgg · 16/08/2023 08:35

They haven’t faced any decent questions yet

Dodds didn’t turn up, Starmer relied on no one is talking about it

It’s a patch of paint over a flimsy construction. They won’t be able to detail their marketing spin

Beowulfa · 16/08/2023 08:37

I'm always cheered to hear about cross-party discussion, regardless of topic. It's nice to know that occasionally they can act like grown-ups with the best interest of the nation in mind.

Labour need to be thoroughly grilled about this alleged change of stance though.

Lottapianos · 16/08/2023 08:40

'I am massively disappointed in Starmer on women’s rights, and don’t trust him an inch. But I do think that he was dealt an exceptionally difficult hand as Leader of the Opposition, and has done well to pull Labour back from circling the drain'

That's exactly how I feel too. I really admire what he has achieved in his career, and I want to like him and get behind him but my god, he's an utter disaster on this issue

LoobiJee · 16/08/2023 08:58

rogdmum · 16/08/2023 08:25

I was also struck by the mention of the absolute confidentiality afforded to members of the group, in contrast to other ‘Chatham house rules’ groups. The position that lawmakers who hold lawful views and wish to discuss those lawful views have to meet in secret to protect themselves from risk is just appalling. Those politicians who created, enforced, allowed or condoned an ideological or political position which has resulted in that situation really need to take a long hard look at themselves.

The Chatham House rules also protects the participants. I only spoke at the meetings I was invited to because I was promised confidentiality under Chatham House.

That’s such an important point. I hadn’t thought of that aspect.

FroodwithaKaren · 16/08/2023 09:10

I was aware from my MP that there is a cross party network and support, and that those MPs have the capacity to see this as not a party issue but an issue of right and wrong that all MPs should care about.

However deeds, not words. Announcing that oh look, a few women MPs from Labour have been allowed to talk to That Lot without being burned at the stake, look at the wonder of us and hoping that means women go 'oh yes, you won't throw our rights on the bonfire the second you have power' - yeah whatever. How stupid do you think women are?

Alltheprettyseahorses · 16/08/2023 10:09

Except Starmer's views haven't changed. I genuinely don't think it's worth the effort of caring what he says. His USP is that he was DPP but that relies on everyone forgetting he was known as a poor choice from a below-mediocre lineup and ignoring the controversies that constantly dogged him. Oh, and crediting him with the odd thing that went reasonably well under his tenure while blaming everybody else for the constant failures. Truth is, he won the Labour leadership race not because he was the best candidate but because he was the man in it - no Labour woman has ever placed higher than a man.

Floisme · 16/08/2023 10:43

That's all very well but the fact is that Starmer is expected to be the next Prime Minister and, if that doesn't happen, he will have to resign as party leader, whereupon he'll be replaced by .... Oh I don't know, Angela Rayner perhaps? So, regardless of whether I vote for him or not, I still think it's sensible to take note of what he says and who he talks to, both in private and in public.

Anyway cross party working - more please. Unless we get proportional representation (and I can't see that opportunity coming around again in my lifetime) I can't see any other way forward for women's rights.

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