If you can identify as anything…?

[Newnamepls]

I’ve name changed for this but have been here a while (although lurking more than posting).

I’ve been doing a little thought experiment the last few days. If, according to gender identity ideology, you can identify as anything - could I, a woman, identify as a trans woman? If not, then why not? If I can’t identify as a trans woman because I was born female, then doesn’t that prove that sex does matter and does make a difference? It would mean you have to be a man to be a trans woman. But if a trans woman is a woman, and a trans man is a man, then surely even if I can’t directly identify as a trans woman, I could identify as a trans man (and therefore BE a man) and then back into a trans woman? Although since everyone is what they say they are, it seems to me I should be able to declare myself a trans woman if I want.

I wonder how trans women would feel about the appropriation of their words and their identities.

This may be shortened to trans woman, or MTF, an abbreviation for male-to-female."

Ah, so this is Stonewall explicitly stating that "woman" and "female" are interchangeable.

So they've been agreeing with us all along!?!

I think, as usual, they are confused or deliberately obfuscating.

Stonewall, in most of its definitions, separates 'gender' from 'sex'.

However if gender and sex are different things, then 'male' and 'female' as in the definitions of transgender men and women, are adjectives describing gender, not sex.

I suspect Stonewall know that people use the terms "male to female" and "female to male" (terms stemming from the assertion that people can actually change sex) and want to include those terms in their glossary

But this is inconsistent with their separation of 'gender' anc 'sex'.

Just one of the many inconsistencies

It is all rather confusing, but really interesting posts, thanks everyone.

It that biological sex (or sex assigned at birth) is relevant, but only in determining if you’re trans or not, after that point, it no longer matters and should be disregarded in favour of your gender identity.

I suppose someone who transitions from female to male and back again is detrans, not a trans woman. @popebishop ‘s questions about being agender are interesting, I have no idea what the answer would be to those!

The circumgender things I’ve read seem to say it’s offensive because it’s appropriating an identity that isn’t yours, and also that it’s appropriating the discrimination, disadvantage, struggled etc associated with that identity. Or alternatively as a pp said, mocking the trans community.

I understand those concerns. But I feel there’s some hypocrisy there, particularly among trans women, when some of them openly speak positively of the experience of being discriminated against (as a woman not as a trans woman), or seem to relish in or fantasise about things like sexual assault/ groping, harassment/ cat calling etc (I’m thinking of the Ginny thread). If that’s not ‘appropriating’ the disadvantage and struggle many women face in the most distasteful way possible, I don’t know what is.

As for mocking, well there seem to be certainly some trans women whose idea of being a woman feels very mocking - the ‘bimbo’ thing for example.

So why is it okay for some to appropriate and mock and it’s okay, but it’s not if someone else does it to them?

why is it okay for some to appropriate and mock and it’s okay, but it’s not if someone else does it to them?

Why is it ok for male self identified lesbians to say that they will only be attracted to and sleep with biological females because traumatising and upsetting otherwise, but not for lesbian females to say it without being threatened with corrective rape and murder?

You're not talking about a healthy, rational mind set with the capacity for seeing others as equally human as opposed to service provision units. Entitlement without responsibility, a severe difficulty with empathy and social reciprocation. It's an abusive dynamic.

So anyone in the history of the world who has been using it to mean "female" is wrong, and it has absolutely nothing to do with being female. There are no criteria, so it's a totally meaningless word that communicates nothing except "a human".

Yes, that is the logical endpoint of thinking a woman is anyone who identifies as such.

Quite.

Yes, you’re right. It’s frightening.

Echoing this in the sense that I am spotting more and more cases of zero empathy directed towards women from some trans activists while empathy is always demanded from women.

I also increasingly notice how women (the vulva kind) are seen as a resource to be used, as a psychological and social support network, and expected to function at most as an admiring audience for others who matter more in life (in, say, sports).

It's been a disconcerting experience, to notice how common all these are, including among many/some women. It made me think that I am watching one of the ways why women as a sex were subjugated in the first place.

“I also increasingly notice how women (the vulva kind) are seen as a resource to be used, as a psychological and social support network, and expected to function at most as an admiring audience for others who matter more in life (in, say, sports).”

In another thread someone described it as women being viewed as “Non Playable Characters” (a gaming term). So, in other words, they are extras / bystanders / decor.

When Ru Paul got slated for not allowing transmen on drag race he obviously caved.

So on a show which is about people born male who dress to resemble a female (caricature and offensive to many but that's another thread) he had to include a person born female who dressed to resemble a female.

So I think you can get away with anything if it's an identity. Peer pressure innit.

Not sure if I'm allowed to link to it here as it's borderline offensive, so please do an image search for kikomi bio trans girl.

It's exactly this, a woman identifying as a 'trans woman', being done as a satire of the gender identity concept.

They claim that trans is a description of a woman as in, tall woman, black woman, disabled woman, etc.

They also claim sex is assigned at birth

Lets try that in their own words

Tall woman AFAB
Black woman AFAB
Disabled woman AFAB
Transwoman AFAB

Hmm... it doesn't quite work how they think it does.

That's why they insist on the space in "trans woman" because it makes it ambiguous as to whether it's a compound noun or a noun phrase. It's linguistic trickery and so many people have fallen for it.

It is quite chilling. It makes me feel I’ve been naive really, I’m in my early 30s and until the last couple of years probably would have said women’s rights have come on leaps and bounds and there’s not going to be a reverse gear. But the way things have been going and the scary attitudes towards women (not just this, but other misogynistic groups too) make me realise I’ve (a) been naive about the reality in this country and (b) things absolutely can get worse and we have to stand up to this sort of thing to prevent it getting worse.

I don't think they care

I had this conversation with a young ( adult ) woke relative . She told me I’d agree with her ( about safeguarding , TRAs etc ) if I knew anyone who was trans, so I told her that I was .

she went crazy tying herself in knots telling me that I wasn’t.

even though anyone can identity as anyone .

and trans people don’t owe anyone femininity / masculinity.

and it’s about acceptance without exception

and she couldn’t see my trans soul

and that Stonewall says I’m trans if I say I am . And if it’s good enough for stonewall it should be good enough for her.

i told her that it was people like her that were stopping people like me being their authentic selves

and that my husband and I were the most oppressed people ever, because everyone assumed we were a straight couple but in fact we were both trans.

And that we were having special cool trans people sex not boring old middle aged straight people sex . that nearly finished her off.

Look up ‘biotrans’

it’s been done and they dismiss it as offensive trolling without any self awareness.9

I love this! Really made me laugh, especially the last bit!

This is the achilles heel of the ideology IMHO. Anyone can be Anyone depending on feelz, but in reality only males can be tw. So they know exactly what men and women are, it's the starting point.

Women are making a lot of money right now playing NPC's on tiktok. It's a relatively new trend. I'd struggle to explain, it's basically repeating a few stock phrases and noises over and over depending on the type of sticker (which cost money to buy and the women receives) donated. The motions and sounds are supposed to be exactly the same each time. Very chilling.
It needs to be seen to be believed.
Just on the mention of women becoming like NPC's to some demographics, it's actually literal in some areas of the internet.