Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mary Rose Museum's Queer Lense

264 replies

1stWorldProblems · 07/08/2023 21:04

I bloody love this musuem & it's one of the few to use tech to enhance its exhibits with the "ghosts" it projects on the hull (as opposed to unnecessary "interactive" displays that 50-somethings are cool and break after a few months but which kids have seen better done on their tablets but that's another thread). This came up on my timeline today - viewing a number of their objects through a queer lens - or going on about 21st century concerns that can only be linked to the said object by tying yourself in knots.

https://maryrose.org/blog/collections/the-collections-team/queering-the-mary-rose-s-collection/

SO tedious - the wreck and the objects found are fascinating without layering on 21st century superfluous info. It's not even interesting or original thoughts - just the usual guff.

Queering The Mary Rose's Collection

Historical stories, conservation updates and other stories from the team at The Mary Rose

https://maryrose.org/blog/collections/the-collections-team/queering-the-mary-rose-s-collection

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Boiledbeetle · 08/08/2023 20:20

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 07/08/2023 22:04

You're right! I'm going to open my house to the public. They can pay to come and see my things in an exhibition called "How 21st century people live. Through a fat persons lens"

I'll be loaded in no time.

Bizarrely you'd do even better if you passed it off as the work of a thin person giving their tortured impression of the life of a fat person through the lens of a fat person.

Can you get a skinny kid from down the road to work the room looking all serious and spouting waffle? Gives you chance to sit at the door eating Tunnocks and Pocketing the cash.

terrywynne · 08/08/2023 20:29

SabrinaThwaite · 08/08/2023 20:17

Is that the same Thomas Howard that pimped out his niece, Catherine?

That's the one. There is some question over whether he actively pushed her in front of Henry as it were. But he certainly didn't object when she caught the kings eye. And then when it all went to pieces, he disowned his whole step family as traitors to save his skin. And when it was clear that his son was going to be found guilty of treason, he tried unsuccessfully to pull the same trick.

SabrinaThwaite · 08/08/2023 20:40

On the Cowdray Engraving that shows the sinking of the Mary Rose, there is a theory that Catherine Howard is depicted trying to catch Henry’s eye.

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 08/08/2023 20:59

Boiledbeetle · 08/08/2023 20:20

Bizarrely you'd do even better if you passed it off as the work of a thin person giving their tortured impression of the life of a fat person through the lens of a fat person.

Can you get a skinny kid from down the road to work the room looking all serious and spouting waffle? Gives you chance to sit at the door eating Tunnocks and Pocketing the cash.

I have a very skinny teen. He can do it. He also makes amazing scones which I can sell in the coffee shop.

I thought I'd do an accompanying blog. Today's entry will be about my trip to Aldi
But I can't be bothered to type it right now. Plus I need to tidy up if you're all coming round. Grin

Boiledbeetle · 08/08/2023 21:16

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 08/08/2023 20:59

I have a very skinny teen. He can do it. He also makes amazing scones which I can sell in the coffee shop.

I thought I'd do an accompanying blog. Today's entry will be about my trip to Aldi
But I can't be bothered to type it right now. Plus I need to tidy up if you're all coming round. Grin

Well, it would be rude not to as you've gone to all the effort!

Do we get a mumsnet discount on the ticket price?

1stWorldProblems · 08/08/2023 21:20

More actual history on this thread than on the original webpage. Glad to see they tw#tted too for such drivel.

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 08/08/2023 21:43

I'm quite astonished that such an irrelevant blurb has been accepted as information on the ship / shipboard life. It doesn't even try to be relevant, it's just:

Nit combs. Queer people!

SidewaysOtter · 08/08/2023 21:48

I thought I'd do an accompanying blog. Today's entry will be about my trip to Aldi
But I can't be bothered to type it right now.

That Chat-thingy will be your friend. Get it to wang in the phrase “LGBTQIA+” at intervals and you’ll be qualifying for public funding in no time.

Musomama1 · 08/08/2023 21:51

NeverDropYourMooncup · 08/08/2023 19:34

Stonehenge, the iconic prehistoric monument located on the Salisbury Plain in England, holds a unique place in the annals of queer history, not because of its original purpose or construction, but rather due to its symbolic resonance and its role in contemporary celebrations of diversity and inclusion.

Stonehenge itself was built by Neolithic and Bronze Age communities over a span of centuries, with the most significant construction occurring around 2500 BCE. Its original purpose is still a subject of debate among archaeologists, but it is widely believed to have had ceremonial and astronomical significance, possibly serving as a site for religious rituals and observance of celestial events.

In the context of queer history, Stonehenge's enduring presence has lent itself to various interpretations and connections. Its timeless and enigmatic nature has attracted LGBTQ+ individuals and communities seeking spaces of belonging and connection. The site's mysterious history, marked by the efforts of ancient societies to gather and celebrate, can be seen as a metaphor for the contemporary queer experience – a shared pursuit of identity and unity in the face of adversity.

In more recent years, Stonehenge has become a venue for LGBTQ+ gatherings and celebrations. The Summer Solstice, a significant event at Stonehenge, has drawn LGBTQ+ individuals from around the world to partake in the festivities. This convergence of ancient and modern, historical and contemporary, serves as a powerful reminder of the resilience and strength of the LGBTQ+ community.
Moreover, Stonehenge's enduring symbolism as a monument that transcends time and societal boundaries can be seen as a metaphor for the fluidity and diversity of sexual orientations and gender identities. Just as the stones of Stonehenge have stood through the ages, enduring change and upheaval, so too have LGBTQ+ individuals forged a path of acceptance and understanding in a world that has not always been accommodating.

In conclusion, Stonehenge's significance in queer history lies not in its construction or original purpose, but in the powerful ways it has been embraced as a symbol of unity, identity, and inclusion by LGBTQ+ communities. Its magnetic pull, both as an ancient monument and as a modern gathering place, reminds us of the importance of connecting with our past while also forging a path towards a more inclusive and accepting future.

Is this a computer generated thing? Quite poetic actually compared to nit combs = haircuts = queer expression.

So my queering of Stonehenge got as far as large erections...

Boiledbeetle · 08/08/2023 22:11

Chat gpt

Write me a poem about a gay nit comb

In a world of tangles, where hair intertwines,
A gay nit comb emerges, its purpose defined.
With teeth that dance gently, a rainbow's embrace,
It brings order and care to each textured grace.
A symphony of colors, a celebration so bright,
It glides through the strands, in love's tender light.
Embracing diversity, in every unique strand,
The gay nit comb glimmers, in love's open hand.
Unraveling knots with compassion, it sings,
Each snarl and each twist, it tenderly brings
To harmony's rhythm, where differences unite,
The gay nit comb whispers, "In love, we take flight."
In its gentle caress, a story is told,
Of acceptance and pride, in every strand's hold.
So let us remember, as we comb through our days,
The gay nit comb's lesson, in love's vibrant blaze.

IcakethereforeIam · 08/08/2023 22:18

Ooh, can someone get it to do a gay nit comb picture? Bonus if it's set at sea in Tudor times.

Richelieu · 08/08/2023 22:27

Even more bonus points if it’s as terrifying as the Chat GPT trailer for a Heidi film which I saw on Twitter. I’m still having nightmares.

terrywynne · 08/08/2023 22:28

@IcakethereforeIam I tried an AI image generator which created these... I think the first one may have a nit comb for actual hair! I did specify Tudor ship which was clearly a fail as those are neither Tudor hairstyles or Tudor ships.

Mary Rose Museum's Queer Lense
MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 08/08/2023 22:30

Mine has neither a nit comb, or a tudor ship!

Mary Rose Museum's Queer Lense
IcakethereforeIam · 08/08/2023 22:34

These are brilliant, I literally have tears in my eyes. Thank you.

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 08/08/2023 22:34

DS thinks Gay Nit Comb sounds like a band. And said the chatGPT LGBT banana thing misseda trick by not mentioning being bendy/ not straight.

terrywynne · 08/08/2023 22:45

More seriously, it is a bit frustrating as the Mary Rose Museum has previously done hidden histories/unknown stories very well. Their video on early salvage attempts includes the 16th century African salvage diver who is the first known black man to appear in an English court case (as a witness for his employer iirc). And they have done DNA research to show that the drowned men included those with middle eastern and North African heritage, including one man who was born and grew up in the West country but appears to have had an English mother and a North African father.

All of which is interesting because it is archaeological and historical study directly related to the Mary Rose through finds and salvage attempts that has changed assumptions about the people involved with her. This is just an attempt to find an alternative perspective that is not supported by the finds that they have highlighted.

londonmummy1966 · 08/08/2023 23:03

The University of Leicester and in particular Professor Richard Sandell are big cheerleaders of all this

And therein lies the problem as Leicester remains the pre eminent niversity for musem studies and since it dug up Ricky 3 its heading for a much higher slot in archaeology too

londonmummy1966 · 08/08/2023 23:13

SabrinaThwaite · 08/08/2023 20:40

On the Cowdray Engraving that shows the sinking of the Mary Rose, there is a theory that Catherine Howard is depicted trying to catch Henry’s eye.

Unlikely as she'd been dead for 3 years at that point (She died in February 1543 and the Mary Rose sank in July 1545.

londonmummy1966 · 08/08/2023 23:15

terrywynne · 08/08/2023 22:45

More seriously, it is a bit frustrating as the Mary Rose Museum has previously done hidden histories/unknown stories very well. Their video on early salvage attempts includes the 16th century African salvage diver who is the first known black man to appear in an English court case (as a witness for his employer iirc). And they have done DNA research to show that the drowned men included those with middle eastern and North African heritage, including one man who was born and grew up in the West country but appears to have had an English mother and a North African father.

All of which is interesting because it is archaeological and historical study directly related to the Mary Rose through finds and salvage attempts that has changed assumptions about the people involved with her. This is just an attempt to find an alternative perspective that is not supported by the finds that they have highlighted.

THere was a brilliant documentary a few years ago by a guy I knew from the days before the ship came up who went on to be a medic. He looked at some of the skeletons and the DNA evidence and discussed the evidence that a number of the crew (including the bosun) were shipwrecked Spanish sailors and the chances that some of them were from Africa were pretty high. I love that fact that one of the SPanish characters in Becoming ELizabeth on CHannel 4 is black as the chances are that a lot of the Spanish grandees at the time had African ancestry.

terrywynne · 08/08/2023 23:16

londonmummy1966 · 08/08/2023 23:13

Unlikely as she'd been dead for 3 years at that point (She died in February 1543 and the Mary Rose sank in July 1545.

Maybe she was back to haunt him!

It couldn't even be Katherine Parr as she was already married to Henry by 1545.

SammyScrounge · 08/08/2023 23:19

Thin links, no substance, trivial. How much did the museum pay for this 'work'?

londonmummy1966 · 08/08/2023 23:20

terrywynne · 08/08/2023 23:16

Maybe she was back to haunt him!

It couldn't even be Katherine Parr as she was already married to Henry by 1545.

Apparently he was interested in Katherine Willoughby (Charles Brandon's wife) but I suspect that given she'd already been married to one much older man (her guardian of all people) and was a close friend of Katherine Parr I can't imagine she was interested - she was one of a number of aristocratic women who married their groom second time round...

terrywynne · 08/08/2023 23:24

londonmummy1966 · 08/08/2023 23:15

THere was a brilliant documentary a few years ago by a guy I knew from the days before the ship came up who went on to be a medic. He looked at some of the skeletons and the DNA evidence and discussed the evidence that a number of the crew (including the bosun) were shipwrecked Spanish sailors and the chances that some of them were from Africa were pretty high. I love that fact that one of the SPanish characters in Becoming ELizabeth on CHannel 4 is black as the chances are that a lot of the Spanish grandees at the time had African ancestry.

I missed that documentary - I think the stuff I read must have come from that research but I hadn't seen anything about the shipwrecked Spanish sailors. It is fascinating to think how people ended up dispersed to other countries via shipwrecks. I remember hearing about an English man who turned up in Japan (I think) because he got shipwrecked and it was 20 years later before a European trading post was set up nearby and he could write home to say he was still alive!

Catherine of Aragon has a black slave if I recall correctly who was freed after she came to England and then ended up moving back to Spain and marrying, but I can't remember if the Becoming Elizabeth character was based on a real person?

Boiledbeetle · 08/08/2023 23:33

Nit combs through history

I had to be sneaky with this one as it got all uppity and said nit combs were not involved in the history of Stonewall.

In the heart of the night, a fire ignited,
A battle for justice, courage uninvited.
A nit comb emerged, their spirit so bold,
With a brick in their teeth, a story to be told.

Amidst shadows and secrets, they took their stand,
A catalyst for less nits, in a world unplanned.
With a resolute heart and a purpose so clear,
They de-nitted the first brick, shattering fear.

Stonewall's dim alleyways echoed the cry,
Of those who had scratched, who wouldn't comply.
The comb soared through nits, a symbol anew,
Of the fight for equality, for a love that's true.

With strength from within, they broke down the wall
Defying oppression, answering the call
A nit was extinguished, a movement took flight,
As that first nit free brick soared through the stillness of night.

From that single act, a revolution was born,
A legacy of less scratching, in the face of scorn.
The first brick they de-nitted, a beacon of light,
Guiding us forward, through the darkest of night.