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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New Judicial Review launched- Transfer of older adolescents to adult clinics

13 replies

rogdmum · 06/08/2023 10:54

Ritchie Herron tweeted last night that unfortunately he has been told he does not have standing for his judicial review against the NHS, though he is still continuing with his personal case, and the father involved has decided to withdraw.

However, a new judicial review has been launched by two mothers, Anna Castle (Wayward_sestra on Twitter) and Mrs C which looks at the pipeline between GIDS and the adult clinics.

Most of the information about it is only available just now on the crowdfunder which I can’t link to under Mumsnet rules, but the description of the two mums is:

“I Anna Castle and Ms C are planning to bring a judicial review against the NHS for providing unsafe treatment advice for young people from 17 years old and vulnerable adults.

We are two mothers whose stories are remarkably similar (although we have never met)

  • We are the mothers of teenage daughters (16 and 17 years old) who felt they were lesbians.
  • Our daughters are neurodiverse – autism and ADHD
  • Our daughters have both self-harmed
  • During lockdown our daughters accessed trans activist websites
  • During lockdown our daughters felt they were born in the wrong body and sought medical transition
  • We were shut out of the medical process as we had concerns about medical transition and our daughter’s vulnerabilities
  • Our daughters are on the waiting list for medical treatment
  • Our daughters no longer live with us but with their affirming fathers.”

Hopefully if I screenshot the text from the crowdfunder without linking to it, this post won’t get deleted:

It’s an incredibly important case. While the Cass Review is helping establish safeguards for adolescents with late onset gender dysphoria, those currently int the system sitting on the waiting list are being failed.

I also personally know Anna. She’s a brave brave mum.

New Judicial Review launched- Transfer of older adolescents to adult clinics
New Judicial Review launched- Transfer of older adolescents to adult clinics
OP posts:
OP posts:
Helleofabore · 06/08/2023 22:36

I just read this. I didn’t know about Richie’s JR decision, that must be a blow to him although as you say, he is going forward with his personal case.

best of luck for those two mothers. Horrendous to be excluded from their daughters lives because they disagree that their daughters should be first treated in gender clinics.

Slothtoes · 06/08/2023 23:19

I wish them the best for this case Flowers

rogdmum · 07/08/2023 22:17

Anna is going to be on Newsnight tonight

OP posts:
rogdmum · 08/08/2023 12:34

The Newsnight piece is here:

Interesting to see Will (16 years old) pretty much agree with Anna’s position and wanting a holistic approach and counselling while Chay from Transactual insists this is more hoops for people to have to jump through - Victoria’s response at that bit is great, swings back to Will and says but that’s what you want, isn’t it.

Far more maturity shown by 16 year old Will than the adult pushing medicalisation.

BBC Newsnight on whether 17 year olds who say they're trans should be sent to adult services

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4i0gyEiNfE

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/08/2023 07:16

Thank you for this. Will came over very well - thoughtful and insightful. Chay - less so!
Hannah Barnes was interesting and Victoria Derbyshire was excellent. To the point and immediately challenged Chay for misrepresenting someone else.

Slothtoes · 09/08/2023 11:20

Hannah Barnes did a beautiful explainer and Anna Castle was excellent. I was so very impressed by Will Smyth. Such important points made at such a young age and absolutely all credit to that young person and their family.

Thank god for Victoria Derbyshire keeping Chay on the point, what a relief to see normal journalism applied on this crucial topic.

Chay’s advocacy for it being fine to treat these distressed kids the same as adults was embarrassing. Also oddly immature thinking for an adult. Chay really didn’t have any points to make beyond saying that adult and child patients aren’t cared for together on wards. OK duh-that’s basic safeguarding, but we also look after the vulnerable adults on adult wards, Chay. We don’t (or shouldn’t) pretend all adults have the same needs, if we actually want to help them.

And then Chay’s big point is claiming it is ‘infantilising’ for anyone to question whether a highly vulnerable cohort of children and young people should not be put straight in to an adult transition service. There aren’t enough eyerolls for that.

Adult services were originally designed for the needs of much older mid-life adults, usually male transsexuals, with years of adult independent living behind them. Those older adults will have had a chance to live their lives, get jobs, move locations, have romantic and sexual relationships, find housing, find their adult tribe, reflect on how their families and education and their sexuality and beliefs have shaped their life, perhaps have had their own children. They will have seen how their own age group peers are living their lives. Crucially they will have met loads of different adult people living their lives in different ways. Many will have had the chance to have had years of professional psychological involvement before they ever got to adult GIDs.

In total all those years give adults an unhurried chance to really think in a realistic adult way about what they want as adults going forward for the rest of their lives. They will have a much clearer sense of who they are and think in an informed way about what will make them happy.

If this judicial review fails, the difference between a young person of 19 or 20 coming fresh off the street into adult services after being referred age 16) and a 16 year old getting the full benefit of the Cass-informed holistic approach of the future and then going into adult services or not, as a 20 year old, is going to be extremely stark.

I don’t want for us to have to wait to see the inevitable difference in statistics of irreversible transition between the holistic care and non holistic groups, before the NHS rethinks this policy as being an actually very leading and funneling way to provide a service. These are very young people with often complex vulnerabilities that adult services will soon be seeing in an inappropriately narrow way.

There should be children and young peoples services in GIDS until 25, (or until you get to the top of the list in that service even if you were referred just before your 25 birthday, so that a non-rushed holistic assessment can be made by them ). Then if you’re initially referred to GIDS as a 26 year old or over, then these adult services should begin to provide a lighter touch holistic approach for a minimum amount of time to try to identify and support the many vulnerable adults who will be finding their way straight to adult GIDS.

And as a final point we should not be relying on massive waiting lists to build in thinking time for children and young people. The system of care should do that with the appropriate professional support. If numbers of referrals go down over time or if the introduction of holistic care in children’s services means that more patients don’t reach adult GIDs, then what happens to these patients who aren’t going to be waiting for years to be seen any more?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/08/2023 17:53

Thank you Slothtoes for such an insightful post. It's amazing how little the welfare of children seems to matter to adult transactivists - and they have no shame in displaying this.

Slothtoes · 09/08/2023 19:06

Absolutely- it’s so stark and shocking in these discussions how distressed children are really seen by the TRA lobby. The kids are the essential, (but individually totally replaceable) supply of bums on seats in their solipsistic adult show.

OldCrone · 09/08/2023 19:51

It's amazing how little the welfare of children seems to matter to adult transactivists

It's not just that child welfare doesn't matter to them. It's also that the existence of 'trans children' is essential to their claim that these adults have always 'been trans' and that they were just like those children when they were children themselves (even if they weren't). Some transactivists have quite openly stated how useful these children are because they "take the sex right out of the trans experience.”

Lantyslee · 09/08/2023 22:14

@Slothtoes as the parent of a mentally ill 20 year old who believes they have gender dysphoria and thinks their problems will be solved by hormones, I couldn't agree more with you. My DC has no experience of life, is very isolated and has never had a relationship. They're no more capable of making a decision to permanently change their body now than they were at 16.

Slothtoes · 09/08/2023 23:26

Flowers Lantyslee

InpraiseofWomenhelpingWomen · 11/08/2023 20:34

Thank you OP for telling us about the judicial review. I’m delighted to support it. If Ms. Castle or the other mother are reading this - thank you so much for doing so much for your daughters, and for all our daughters. XX

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