I think this is what I can't get my head around in terms of the trans debate

[Heywhatawobderfulkindofday]

I was talking about the problem of allowing transwomen into female only spaces, I am not in any way an expert. I just expressed that some women have very valid concerns about this, possibly due to complex sexual trauma. It is not based on any sort of superficial prejudice but very valid concerns about people with penis's being in female only spaces.
A white man then proceeded to tell me I was overreacting and offered to send me some articles to 'educate me'. The thing is, this is so dissimilar to the education which you can extend to people on their racism or unconscious bias. What is it going to say? It's going to tell women that they are silly to be concerned but none of the evidence can justify that their fears are unfounded.
What I really struggle with is that in every possible social situation this man will have the upper hand. I am the lowest of the low, a poor, single mum on benefits with no social standing, a regional accent, no skills in debating. I'm sick of being told that I, a woman, should be aware of my 'privilege' of being a 'cis' woman. How the flip can I this man, who people would listen to, trust, respect, not get that?
How can he feel that I should give over control of the one thing I have, the right to pee in a penis free space, for another white man? Just so that the next day, he can dress like a man and also have all the power that goes with that, whilst I remain disempowered, ignored and reviled. I don't understand!

It's about misogyny being invisible. The only way he can say that is if he doesn't notice violence against women, if he brushes off rape rates, if the two women killed every week from domestic violence is background noise. He's only seeing it from the perspective of men and I think he doesn't want to open his eyes and see it from the perspective of women because that's a real horror show, and it'll mean he's been arguing in favour of some really callous things.
Far better to dig his heels in because otherwise he going to have to face some uncomfortable truths

Offer to send him some articles to educated himself, he's a massive hypocrite. He should check his own privilege and ask himself what happens to that privilege if he changed nothing about himself except saying 'I am a woman'. Because that is literally all it takes. The lippy, the head tilt, that's just extra.

He’s an arrogant fuck who is more interesting in believing he’s a nice guy than actual putting the hard work of being a decent guy. He’s probably not interested in women at all. He’d certainly not interested in you.

Exactly.

And I completely agree with you OP. As a white man, he is part of the group that are the most privileged on the face of the planet. How DARE he lecture you! He needs to remove his head from his arse and be educated on some very key facts.

It'll never make any sense to you because NONE of it makes any sense. You're the sensible one here.

I mean the arrogance of him, a man, sending you some articles to educate you of what your experience as a woman, of men, should be.

Rather than him taking the opportunity of educating himself of what woman’s experiences are by listening to you, an actual woman, standing before him and talking to him about this.

The sheer blind arrogance of it.

There are some men who have LOVED the opportunity this movement has given them to tell women how they should feel, react and behave. Absolutely loved it.

The crime statistics ought to make this unarguable. All over the world, as far back as reliable stats have been collected:

• most violent crimes are committed by men. Their victims are most often other males, but when they attack women and children they do more damage because they are so much physically stronger than their victims.
• almost all sex crimes are committed by men, including Peeping Toms, voyeurs using camera phones, people who make/distribute/download images of child sexual abuse, flashers, gropers, rapists and perpetrators of other kinds of sexual assault.

Women want and need privacy and security when we're vulnerable and the most effective way to get that is to exclude all men and older boys. Most of those men and boys will be decent and would respect the boundaries of women, girls and young children, but we can't tell on sight who the rotten apples are, so we keep them all out.

Transwomen are male. Male pattern violence happens at at least the same rate amongst the transwomen population as it does in other men. Research carried out by professionals who worked with transwomen showed that many of them were motivated not by gender dysphoria but by complex sexual fetishes. It was almost universally understood to be important for women's safety and dignity that they should be able to avoid being unwittingly dragged into any of that. Now it isn't.

It doesn’t make sense.

Men telling us how to do feminism
Men telling us what a woman is
Men telling us what we, women, should want, need, accept, roll over for…

…can all fuck off

Ask him to justify why he should be allowed to get naked in a single sex female only changing room with you.

Point out that you do not consent.

If he can educate you on his right to do this he has educated on any males right to do this

I have stayed out of the debate as I have one really good friend who's married to a transwoman who I absolutely believe has gender dysmorphia. She has known her whole life that she is a woman.
Part of me used to wonder if this was similar to the difference in opinion when segregation ended in the US and I wondered if I was on the wrong side of history in terms of feeling uncomfortable about this. But that statistics just don't seem to suggest this. Unless you believe that all those male sex offenders, violent criminals had a complete change of moral code and personality when they decided to change gender. I did used to work in the prison system too.

I'm afraid it's all a luxury belief/class thing. You're both low class culturally for not understanding, and your sex class needs to stand aside/budge up/compromise for the greater good. All part of the intersectional jockeying for position for a happier, more loving, more understanding new world.

The last thing we want is any Karens, especially those from the lower more uneducated classes to somehow think that female rights are sacrosanct when there's a whole class of suicide ideated youth that must be saved, and unhappy trans IDd adults who are persecuted the most, way more than any natal woman is.

Of course the luxury belief is the neo religious aspect of transgenderism, the one where the middle classes and faux intellectuals can demonstrate their adherence to the mantra, from which is bestowed social status, membership, kinship and protection.

On both of these pressures, uppity Karens, especially the bold as brass ones who argue purely from a female sex based rights position without intellectualising any further, must be put down.

In the past, that would have been a David Cameron "calm down, dear" type snide comment, or total blanking.

Today, it's self censorship, and Maoist re education from the BeKind crowd.

A white man then proceeded to tell me I was overreacting and offered to send me some articles to 'educate me'.

I would send him the link to the player series on Gaia Pope and ask him to also educate himself on what women have to face from male violence and misogyny and how sexual assault affects them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0fzy1xm/gaia-a-death-on-dancing-ledge

It is not just about safety - but most of the time about the privacy and dignity of one's sex ( which permits one to be more relaxed in public spaces - amongst strangers).

Why is dignity important to males who identify as woman, but not to actual women - even in their own spaces?

It's being shown more and more, that true gender dysmorphia, where a person is unbelievably unhappy and self destructive, attributed only/predominantly to gender, is really just specific body dysmorphia, but even amongst the wider social phenomenon of gender incongruence, is a tiny tiny proportion of the population, something like 0.015% of live births, not the commonly accepted 0.5% figure, or even the 1.5-3% that Stonewall tout.
Likely even smaller numbers than intersex births.

If we "accept" 0.5% of people are trans IDd, then it's 0.015% with true paraphilic issues, the rest ie 0.485% having some social conditioning blues, the ones shouting loudest and longest.

And we've as Western societies gone on to turn upside down all social conventions and century-long hard fought rights, to prioritise this 0.015% of hardcore unhappy psychological cases, and the 0.485% cohort of "outré" individuals, while now this moral panic and social contagion is boosting 0.5% to the 3% plus posited by the ideologues, as millions worldwide ID as trans.

What a mess.

men, especially white men, do not understand the privilege they have or, if they do, want to flaunt & excerise it. So by becoming a TW they flaunt their male power by invading spaces. It is something only a true xy chromosome male would insist on and feel they have the right to be able to do. To me, it is absolutely nothing (for many of them) to do with wanting to use single sex spaces for females because they feel like a women. It is because they can and they will.

He's a man, he thinks he has the perfect right to tell women what they should think about anything, ANYTHING, that worsens a woman's life. He is a sexist, he's a misogynist, he's also incapable of being educated, he thinks that being born male gives men rights that they don't have.He probably thinks that women are having a great time and that men are being screwed over . He thinks he can give women's rights away.

In short, you can ignore his nonsense. Ask him why people who are trans don't request their own spaces rather than want women's spaces.

@castlesandsand yes part of me does find it strange that this whole ideology arose when there has never been greater opportunities for people of colour and women.

Tell him that he will be able to see things more clearly if he pulls his head out of his arse.

Please do post links here to the articles he sends you; I'm sure the many knowledgeable women (and some men) on this board will be able to see if they have any merit, and put together a response.

A white man then proceeded to tell me I was overreacting and offered to send me some articles to 'educate me'

My reaction would have been 🙄

Overreacting?? Because of course women's fear of male violence and experience of male violence don't matter. The feelings of transwomen are always more important.

OP f this is someone you are likely t meet regularly, then accept his offer of ‘re-education material’, then post it here, and provide him with a thorough critique; I’m sure one will be prepared on MN for you, as you probably don’t have time (assuming - single mother!) 😉
I’m sure we can also provide some material for him to peruse. The thread recording attacks on women by TW is quite an eye-opener. Personally, I think the words ‘Katie Dolotowski’ provides all the evidence anyone could ever need to keep TW out of women’s toilets and changing rooms

What then if a privileged black man lectures one? Neil de grasse Tyson comes to mind. Or a white female feminist. Too many to name but Penny Laurie scolding women worried about the safety of their girls and admonishing that kids should avert their eyes. My point, as a woman with pretty dark skin, is that a lot of this intersectional rubbish is part of the reason why we are at this cul de sac.

It's a deliberate misogynistic tactic used by men who want to ensure they maintain power over women to silence us from naming our oppression and their violence and power.

This whole gender issue is a misogynist's wet dream.

Not strange at all. It is almost inevitable - it is called 'backlash'.

Facing losing their privilege, white men are fighting back.
Most MRA support transwomen, not because they actually care about transwomen at all, but because transwomen are a convenient weapon against women.

Never underestimate how much some men hate women.

Never underestimate how furious men get when their privilege is threatened.

Why did you feel the need to say he was a white man? Are black men allowed to say these things to you? Are women who don’t agree with you?

and you can’t pick and choose which trans women you think are the “real ones”. You can’t go well I know that one and they’ve “known they were a woman all their life” (what does that even mean?) so they’re ok, and then object to other trans people being in female bathrooms. your friends spouse is just like the trans woman you object to.