Giant trans flag in window of autism support centre near me

[Moanthensmum]

Hello, I'm new to Mumsnet and have been reading all the different threads and I came across this one and was really shocked by all the revelations on it re. gender ideology. I don't think I appreciated how insidious it all is.

Being from Scotland I have been aware of and worried about the impact of the self id bill, most friends and parents I've talked to have been on the same page, seems to be a big safeguarding red flag and so odd that it was pushed through with such fervour.

Anyway, the more I've become aware of all the stuff that's been happening in my country the more I've started to worry. I joined Mumsnet because I have a DS who is 5 in two months and is autistic, with limited speech, hearing aids and other additional support needs. My other DS who is almost 2 is at the moment presenting as neurotypical.

The difference in them is so noticeable. Anyway sorry, I'm digressing. The point of this thread is since I've become more aware of (and more concerned by) the gender ideology push up here in Scotland, the more worried I am about my DS who is autistic. He is so trusting and so naive which shows even without speech. This whole movement appears to target vulnerable children, a friend recommended that I read the time to think book about the Tavistock scandal and it is devastating. I haven't finished it yet but it's eye opening.

I want to start getting support for DS but today when I went to the support charity in the nearest town to me (autism support, partnered with the council's carer support centre) I stopped short before going in the door.

Because there in the window was a massive and I mean massive flag with the trans triangle (and whatever all the other colours mean).

I find that deeply troubling that a support centre set up for the purpose of supporting people with autism and children with autism is displaying this really prominently. I think I would have maybe been a tiny bit more forgiving if it had still been June (the month of Pride), but it's not. It's August tomorrow. This makes me realise how captured my country is. Will it soon be like Canada? Probably. How will I get support without this sneaking through to preach to my v vulnerable son? I'm scared.

Sorry if that sounds hyperbolic.

@Hoardasurass thank you so much for the advice, I will look at this. I hope the tide turns more I feel it is turning a wee bit as tbh I was completely oblivious until my friend told me and she's not exactly a political activist or an avid news reader. She just started to get concerned about her own child and their school policy.
If people like my friend and me can become aware then surely it will only be a matter of time before the general population of Scotland catches up. By that I mean folks like my neighbours who are tradespeople and are pretty no nonsense! I'm quite left wing compared to them but I really don't see this as a right Vs left issue and it worries me anyone with concerns for safeguarding vulnerable women and children (including SN children like my DC) is shouted down as being a right wing bigot.

Also being a daft new Mumsnet user I'm not sure how to DM! I think I'll need to sign up for premium to do that, every time I login it redirects me to the talk app. I'll figure it out though! 😄.

If you click on the 3 dots at the bottom of a post it brings up a pm link no need to have premium for it

To be honest, even if you weren’t worried about gender ideology, the only real support you get at most of these places is from other parents in the same boat as you. You are as well setting up your own little local ASN parent group (ASN rather than autism only; a mix of conditions seems to help keep things grounded although autism is likely to be the most common condition that comes along). The other thing you will find from these Autism groups is very little understanding of other disabilities.

Also, check out Enquire. They have good resources on education and ASN. They are part of a captured organisation but so far their resources seem reasonably free of it. Www.enquire.org.uk

Unfortunately it's not just the government up here that's captured they have infected all walks of life especially schools

Government runs state schools and set the curriculum and gives guidance. But also there is a huge problem that most of ‘civic Scotland’ relies on funding from government and the Scottish Government requires all organisations to be ‘trans inclusive’ to get funding. On top of that you have Stonewall and LBGT Youth (used to be Stonewall Youth) ‘training’ everyone and telling organisations they have captured to inspect the policies of suppliers. But whilst the Nats vote unquestioningly for the SNP it will just get worse.

Ditto!

@Hoardasurass ah brilliant, thank you! Still showing off my newbie status...

God it gets worse, I didn't realise this and it shows how much it has filtered into all policy in Scotland. Well, I'll not be voting SNP in future! I'm a bit politically homeless now though, Scottish labour sound the same as do lib Dems.

Thanks also to the other poster with advice about the resources; I'm definitely inspired now to do more detailed research.

@turbonerd hi I just wanted to send love, thanks for replying to my post, it sounds like such a hard position to be in, no wonder you reject the messages these support organisations try to promote.

This is me as well re. toileting/smearing although DC is not 5 yet but he isn't toilet trained doesn't appear to care or want to despite various methods attempted by DH and myself since he turned 3. So it's been almost 2 years now. We are back in pull ups again as it means less mess (we had what you described during the day as well as night) but it makes me feel like a failure. I just want practical support for this situation without an insidious ideology being sold to my vulnerable DC.

@Moanthensmum
Depending on the severity of your child’s autism, nappies can be a godsend.

My DD is 12, and she has learned toileting by ABA training, some people liken this to torture, but for her it has been lovely to be in control. But it is by no means a success every day or every time.
A very limited diet, and tummy-upset at the slightest upheaval, nappies are still in use almost daily. She stopped nappies at school aged 9/10 after much practising. But all of last year and this has been a poo-smearing hell in which we just reverted to Tena lady in the day and big nappies in the night.

She is about 1,5-2 years in mental age. A lovely, lovely little girl and I love her and she also drives me bonkers, because she hardly ever sleeps and then this poo situation. Thank goodness for washing machines and 60-95 degrees programmes.

Don’t feel like failure.
I do all I can for my DD, but I do need help. And she does sometimes need nappies.
The poo-situation has been continuous, with a brief hiatus which fooled me into thinking we were over the hill.
She has ruined her older brothers’ clothes, furniture, pc’s, dvd’s, games, AND chewed her old wooden bed to bits.
She cannot change, but she CAN be taught some basic bits and that’s what we are working on.
I am alone with her, but even if there are two of you try to have respite care put in place on a regular basis - if possible.

Sorry I am rambling a bit, we slept all of 1 hour last night. Luckily it was the last day of her summer holiday so she was back in her provision today snd I could have a nap!

The funding from the Scottish Government for charities and third sector organisations who provide services such as rape crisis services and domestic abuse refuges is very much dependant on them including males, despite the single sex exemptions allowed in the EQA2010, and has led to organisations in Scotland refusing/being unable to provide any single sex services -

forwomen.scot/29/12/2019/funding-conditions/

JKR has taken a lot of abuse for daring to provide the only single sex rape crisis provision in Edinburgh and the Lothians.

I do not know the funding conditions attached to funding for other types of charities, such as the one described in the OP, but given the level of institutional capture in Scotland, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

@turturbonerd oh that sounds really tough and will be so hard doing it all by yourself as well.

I'm going to look up that ABA method you mentioned; our DC does thrive on routine and is v good for bed time now (however will wake up but goes obediently now without fail due to us being really rigid with the night time routine for so long). I feel like this is what we need to do for toileting too; the issue is he is in full time nursery and despite us giving them the routine we use, the visual aids, the language to use, creating a story book etc, they chop and change and he almost never has success at nursery even with pees, which he can sometimes have with us.

Apologies for derailing my own thread! Update re. the support centre is I looked into the organisation and it's full on ideologically captured sadly. And this seems to be the case for all Scottish autism organisations due to the funding issues that someone else mentioned. How depressing. I'm definitely going to try and connect with some parents directly as a way round it.

In my (long, teaching) experience, ‘trans’ kids are almost always autistic. I see trans as an expression or manifestation of autism. Consider the double whammy of being unpopular and having significant sensory and communication issues, then being feted and made to feel special for being ‘different’.

OP DO NOT mention ABA on any online autism group unless you fancy being torn limb from limb. If you research it you will see it is referred to as the Devil’s work, as are all things in anyway related to it. There is no nuance allowed. Actually many say anything at all aimed at changing behaviour is ‘ableist’ and seeking to undermine autism. This of course completely ignores the fact that autistic children, like any children, need to learn, to be taught, to grow, to develop, to be guided, to be given boundaries and behavioural expectations. ABA has changed over the years. There are still some aspects that may be too much but also others that are helpful. As with any therapy always keep a weather eye open.

I don’t mean to nitpick, but it might make a slight difference here. When you say the Trans flag, but you mention a triangle, was it this flag? Because that’s the LGBTIQ+ flag, not the trans flag.

Not sure that flag represents LGB considering those who fly it consider ‘same sex attraction’ transphobic.

I don’t think you can speak for all who fly it.

Hi OP, I know I was one of the people who said about parents' groups...

I still think this is a good idea and I've found it sanity saving. However, I do have to filter out all of the gender identity stuff. Also I have to filter a certain amount of ableist/victim speak. Yes, I think the world could make some better accommodations for autisic people like my daughter, but lots has already been done (the sunflower lanyard scheme being recognised in so many places, including airports) is great! But equally, I am going to teach my child resilience. This world is not a simple place and we all need resilience to navigate it, whether we're neurodiverse or neurotypical. Unfortunately that seems to be heretic thinking in some autism parent groups..... I mostly ignore it and occasionally quietly mumble that I still believe it's a good idea. At the moment, I'm taking a break from in-person groups because it's quite full-on at times.
Oh, and don't mention ABA... you'll get shot! Personally, I think it's good to look at all approaches and take the bits that you think will work for you.

Gosh yes totally agree with this. Similar conclusions as a teacher here too and I'm recalling here from the last few years a female student who identifies as male and wants all the male pronouns and yet also strongly identifies as a lesbian. Rather unsurprisingly was also diagnosed as autistic.

ABA was abusive in its infancy when Ole Løvås was experimenting with it in the 1960s. Stimming was punished and wrongs were punished, with something Akin to electric shocks. It was by all accounts dreadful!

But in its recent incarnation it can be a wonderful tool if you have good practitioners. It is reinforcing wanted behaviours with rewards; anything the child likes can be used. Blowing bubbles, tiny bits of chocolate, favourite squishy toys, bouncing on the trampoline.
Routine is very important, and building up tolerance for keeping a focus on «boring» things over longer and longer periods of time. We are still talking minutes in singel digits here.

Thr focus should be on working to the strengths of the child, with enormous amounts of patience and literally thousands of repetitions in order for the child to automate the actions.

My local council opposed it, but the shire health board (equivalent, I’m in Scandinavia) campaigned to have it more widely known. Mainly through two excellent therapists who were just amazing. They travelled round teaching the nursery staff and parents, who would then carry out the training with the kids. I worked very closely with them for over 5 years, taking the training into school when DD started at 7 (delayed) and they did nothing that was not approved by me.

Not sure how the situation is in Scotland. Just be careful who you find. You as parents should be welcome in the room at all times and at any time. You should be trained just the same as any ta or nursery staff if you so wish. You decide what you need to focus on when it comes to what your child should work on: social settings, hygiene, taking turns, learning letters and Numbers, colours, dressing etc.

I say my DD has a mental age of 2, BUT she has learned how to write her favourite shows in to the iPad. Peppa Pig is still a firm favourite, as is Small Potatoes, Tinga Tinga and Hey Duggee. She learnt it last year, so can now copy short words into the YouTube search. And she can count to 10. Gets very annoyed if she was promised 5 cookies and only gets 4.

I love it.

You sound brilliant with routine and good, clear communication. It is a life saver for them/us.
Ironically, I need routine to function, but most likely autistic myself I need an imposed routine. I can’t do it myself. The chaos has been souldestroying in the past when we haven’t had external factors to corall us. But I have improved too, so even holidays are just about bearable now.
So I am glad you have thst covered for your son.

You know when you're in the naughty corner of the internet when both ABA and gender identity can be discussed openly in the same thread 😉👍

This the the kind of open, supportive thinking that autistic children need.
Great advice from several posters.

Tread carefully OP and you should be able to get what you need without having to submit to gender ideology.

Are you getting child DLA? If at the mid level you can then apply for Carer's Allowance. (I might be out of date in this). IME these support groups are good for helping with benefits applications.

The other thing you probably want, is to meet other parents in the same boat. I would go along to meet people and make new friends.

Is your DS starting school?

I'm a rebel and I didn't know it! 😄. Thanks BonfireLady and TurboNerd, and everyone for all your lovely replies. I'm discovering how refreshing it is on Mumsnet to be able to talk about things and largely not get too much reaction or judgement.

I think it's going to be a long but hopefully rewarding journey for us learning all about autism and how to support our DC in his life and also how to make sure he is set up for adulthood. I feel scared but also hopeful to research lots of advice and support and coming here now too.

Thanks.

We are waiting to get a letter back re. Child DLA, hopefully it will be granted. I'll look into carers allowance too, not sure how it all works.

Meeting other parents would be great.

Hi yes it was this flag but it also had 2 of the light blue and light pink flags (the full trans) stickered onto it at each side (maybe to keep it on the window?). Anyway it felt a bit much to me that it covered the whole window. Particularly as there were no other flags or branding, just that plus the signage of the organisation's name.

I'm the same as @IWillNoLie, I see this new flag mainly being flown by the trans activists alongside the blue pink one; my gay friends I know tend to just use the original rainbow one these days. My friend and her wife feel the new flag doesn't welcome them as lesbians so always buy the rainbow only one. I don't think they tend to go to pride marches either anymore which is a shame as I remember going with my friend before she met her wife and they were always good fun.

Slightest small chance they shoved it up for Pride month and just never quite got round to taking it down?