"Trans row" in beach fishing

[Davros]

I couldn't see another thread:

www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/news/23678665.norfolk-mp-wades-trans-row-sport-beach-fishing/?ref=eb&nid=2399&u=a248f39b87a0e63551993ca1336fdb9a&date=260723

I don't agree that fishing is a sport, but other than that, men should not be allowed to compete against women in any field where typically masculine physical attributes are an advantage.

And so it continues.
Will the madness never end.

Success at last (well some)
https://x.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1707806554257236157?s=20

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12552627/England-ladies-angling-team-refuse-compete-world-championships-trans-woman.html

This might be useful. We discuss the Anglers on other threads so probably a good idea to pull it all together.

I wish that they'd stop using the term transgender athletes. It's men. Or if they have to, trans identified males.

Was there ever more of a stark example of how sexist this entire ideology is? The women who say they are trans are, quite literally, entirely erased from the issue.

That decision means absolutely nothing.

“it is decided to prevent transgender athletes from competing in some female dedicated competitions…”
SOME female competitions (so not all?)

”So, in case of doubt of the sex of the competitor, the birth certificates of the participant will be required at the registration…”
BIRTH CERTIFICATES prove nothing what so ever as they can just be legally falsified.

“Only for those disciplines where a higher physical strength can help…”
MALE ADVANTAGE is not limited to greater physical strength, but females can just put up with differences in all other respects.

I can’t see this changing anything…

Do you think they realised that transpeople can get their sex changed on their birth certificates? I hope that was an oversight that will shortly be amended. I agree, if it's only categories where male puberty gives a 'physical' advantage, why even have separate categories?

It is also important, as we have read on other articles, that the board deciding this inclusion policy are not necessarily anglers themselves. I suspect they don’t understand the issues at hand about male sex advantages - physical or social, and indeed probably have no idea about why women are angry.

Can someone refresh my memory please. Didn’t one of the women have to share accommodation with this male competitor because the teams share rooms on away comps?

Yes, I agree that the birth certificate is useless.

It should be judged, how it's always judged, visually. And if they're not sure, the person who wants to play has to prove what sex they are. The onus is on them. They shouldn't just be able to play, because they say so.

It should be judged, how it's always judged, visually. And if they're not sure, the person who wants to play has to prove what sex they are. The onus is on them. They shouldn't just be able to play, because they say so.

That's subjective though, and difficult. You might end up banning a tall woman with broad shoulders.

I mean, there's an innate unfairness in sport anyway in that the size and shape of your body dictates how successful you could be in any sport.
As a 5'2" woman with short legs and big breasts I'm never going to excel in the high jump even if I only compete against women. But making me compete against men is a step too far.

I thought I read that the trans woman couldn't share with the other women because the trans woman's wife would be jealous.

Which is just bizarre.

Do lesbians usually find it impossible to share a twin room with a woman they aren't in a relationship with without it leading to inappropriate behaviour? I doubt it.

Or is it members of the male sex who find it impossible to share a twin room with a member of the sex they are attracted to without there being some sort of sexual agenda?

That was it. Thanks Margot.

I would be surprised if that were the real reason though. I find it hard to believe that all the female team members were perfectly comfortable with the idea of sharing.

I would expect there would be quite a few rejecting the prospect.

Personally, I think it's as unlikely as it's always been, to mistake a tall, broad shouldered woman for a man.

How have those involved in sports fishing traditionally decided who goes in which team? If they have had to, historically, show birth certificates, and if that is now no longer reliable, then i guess it will have to be cheek swabs.

Wow, he certainly passes as a woman 🙄
The poor ladies who are devoted to fishing have a right to be angry. I hope he gets banned 😡

Not really. They've always done it based on perception as they haven't ever required birth certificates.

Nothing has changed except they won't accept any men that day they are women into the female team.

Next step is realising that birth certificates have been traduced and that the law still gives them the right to say no!

I don't want him banned. He can continue competing with the other men. He took advantage of the rules but he didn't break them. According to the rules he's did nothing wrong. Morally....? I don't think he comes out of it very well.

Competing in the male competition really is broadening the bandwidth. I am all for it.

It is very sad that the main issue with this is that everyone knows and accepts that there are men who will determinedly try to deceive their way into women's sports and spaces. The issue is not a decision of fairness but how to prevent men abusing women.

An update:

https://anglingtrust.net/2023/11/24/team-england-selection-policy-amended/

“As a result of the consultation process, the Angling Trust have amended international selection criteria for England teams meaning that male to female transitioned anglers will no longer be permitted to compete in the ladies’ category. These anglers will continue to be eligible for the existing universal (open) category in both domestic and international events.”

“Angling has a strong heritage of open events and both our National and World Championships are already universal (open) categories allowing the best anglers to compete regardless of gender. The evidence generated through our review process established that strength, stamina and physical attributes have the potential to offer competitors a significant advantage and in doing so impact fairness. In line with Sport England’s review process, we have therefore deemed that angling is a gender impacted sport and have amended our policy accordingly.”

“Growing female participation is a core focus for the organisation and an area in which we have seen great success in recent years. Ensuring the integrity of the female category across all disciplines of angling will remove potential barriers and ensure clear pathways for participation growth to lead to domestic and international success. Having discussed this matter with other sports governing bodies who are building new universal (open) categories we are well advanced in this respect, and we are confident that our revised policy offers opportunities for all to compete fairly and safely in one of England’s largest participation sports.”

“We will continue to work with CIPS and FIPS to support anglers impacted by these changes and to ensure that the international universal category is welcoming and accessible to all.”

”The Angling Trust had previously committed to implement any revised policy from 1st January 2024 in line with the international season, however in light of CIPS’s announcement of an immediate change to its own position we can confirm that this policy will now come into force immediately”

Well done those women!!

Wow! Sounds like a win - win, the female category is protected and everyone else of whatever gender identity can compete in the open category 😀

Gosh. Someone involved with that should set up a consultancy for everyone else needing the same result.

Well done, anglers.