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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Trying to capture material reality in a slogan

62 replies

Gagagardener · 26/07/2023 15:14

I've been trying to devise a brief, memorable GC phrase that simultaneously sums up why we are GC and offers a way forward without being antagonistic.

(Slight digression: when I first heard Trans Women Are Women, I understood it as the equivalent of an old-fashioned dog-lover's statement: 'Dogs are people'. He didn't expect his dogs to eat with spoons, but he recognised they had traits resembling humans' - e.g. sociability, loyalty - that made him feel as if they were people.)

A literal and incredible interpretation of the TWAW slogan as 'Trans Women really are Adult Human Females' has combined with male entitlement to be intractable to reason.
That biology is fixed seems to be anathema and misunderstood.

However it is attitudes around sex and gender that result in brutal misogyny; and in unhappy teens trying to identify out of their sex. It's not the biology but the ecology. And that could, should change.

'We can't change Biology, let's work on Ecology'.
'Biology is fixed; let's change what we can.'
'You can't change your sex, but you can wear it with pride.' 'Be the best trans you can; make life safe for Adult Human Females.'

Not very catchy, I know. I think I'm wasting my time. What I was hoping to come up with was something that politicians could truthfully say with conviction...

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 26/07/2023 17:38

tryingtobeagoodhuman · 26/07/2023 15:32

This is a really interesting question. Something that's been on my mind recently is whether or not trans rights and women's rights are actually opposed. I don't think they are - but it's clear that some of the demands from TRAs do infringe upon women's rights (see: Anne and the changing room).

In this example, trans people do have the right to access safe spaces to get changed. They may not feel/be safe in the men's changing rooms, but that does not negate women's right to have access to a "safe", single sex changing rooms. In this case, a third space (i.e. unisex changing room) meets the safety and dignity needs of both groups.

Could a slogan that feeds into this, along the lines of "trans rights but not at the expense of women's/sex-based rights" work?

Third spaces. They don't work, because they don't provide validation. (Maybe a slogan for that could be "We don't want what's safe, we want what's women's".)

The latest one, 'Anne' in a Sheffield hotel, was outraged to be given the key to the unisex changing room and not the Ladies'. Not the key to the Mens', note - the unisex third space.

Third spaces have been proposed for years - and rejected for years.

Tinysoxx · 26/07/2023 18:00

Women are women
men are men
transwomen want to be women
transmen don’t want to be women

GenericUsername99 · 26/07/2023 19:04

@CompleteGinasaur that really sums it up!

tryingtobeagoodhuman · 26/07/2023 19:33

WhereYouLeftIt · 26/07/2023 17:38

Third spaces. They don't work, because they don't provide validation. (Maybe a slogan for that could be "We don't want what's safe, we want what's women's".)

The latest one, 'Anne' in a Sheffield hotel, was outraged to be given the key to the unisex changing room and not the Ladies'. Not the key to the Mens', note - the unisex third space.

Third spaces have been proposed for years - and rejected for years.

Show quote history

I know this.

This suggestion isn't about providing validation to trans women. It's about putting out a message that explains why this is important but without alienating people. A counter-argument to "you're a man so use the men's changing room" is always going to be "but I'm not safe in there". And that makes sense to most people - hence "trans rights but not at the expense of women's rights."

Anne can be outraged all they want - but that doesn't entitle them to access to the women's changing room. This message isn't for them.

WomenWontWheesht · 26/07/2023 20:43

PurpleBugz · 26/07/2023 15:47

I like "women won't wheesht" (spelling?).

I'm not Scottish so don't know if other parts of uk can adopt it?

Or something like "women's rights don't come after men's feelings"

We might be biased, but we like this Grin

Original poster
Gagagardener · 27/07/2023 00:01

I typed a carefully written reply to each of you (or almost), but was interrupted; MN: why don't incomplete responses 'save'? I'll come back to this tmw. Meanwhile, thank you all very much - and good night.

OP posts:
LulooLemon · 27/07/2023 00:08

I'm amazed MN haven't deleted some of the replies here.

I like trans women are trans women. And most have a penis.

DontGetEvenGetEverything · 27/07/2023 03:39

Lorrries · 26/07/2023 17:15

I agree that "Sex exists, and sometimes it matters" is good - short and to the point.
"Let's get real - sex exists, and it makes a difference."

I like these. I like how conditional the first one is - a simple statement that refuses to be rigid or dogmatic.

I love, "No one is born in the wrong body." It's irrefutable, it is a statement of true acceptance of and kindness for gender diverse kids, and it puts the lie to what medicalisers have been doing. I think it really shifted the conversation around teaching of ideas about gender in schools in the UK. All in one simple phrase.
I also like the way it challenges my female socialisation, and encourages me to love and enjoy my body, as a side-bonus.

Circumferences · 27/07/2023 04:25

I think it's Kathleen Stock (?) who says "when sex matters it really matters" or "live however you like and be whatever gender you like, but when sex matters it really matters"

Lavenderfowl · 27/07/2023 06:57

Woman? Y not!

Inspired by @BitingKat

northerncrumpet · 27/07/2023 07:17

Maybe just "sex matters"...it is uncontroversial but we all know where it comes from :)

Boiledbeetle · 27/07/2023 07:40

WomenWontWheesht · 26/07/2023 20:43

We might be biased, but we like this Grin

Show quote history

I'm with you on this

Trying to capture material reality in a slogan
FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/07/2023 07:59

Female reality matters

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/07/2023 08:00

I can't accept your gender if you won't accept my sex.

parietal · 27/07/2023 08:45

A slogan like 'women won't wheest' only works for an ingroup.

Who is the audience for this slogan? Who do you imagine will use it? A message that can be in posters on the walls of primary schools might not be the same as one used on Twitter by women.

I definitely like 'no one is born in the wrong body' but it doesn't capture the argument against gender stereotypes.

I think the full GC position might be -
Present as you wish but keep single sex spaces for women.

But that is not a v snappy slogan

WearyLady · 27/07/2023 08:58

My vote goes to 'Born not worn' but the addition of the word 'woman' might help to make it more explicit for the initiated.
'Woman: born not worn' has a ring to it. Short and to the point.

tootiredtobother · 27/07/2023 09:03

'You be You, and I'll be Me, but you can't be me.

tootiredtobother · 27/07/2023 09:03

oooh Born not Worn, way better.

nonman · 27/07/2023 13:56

LulooLemon · 27/07/2023 00:08

I'm amazed MN haven't deleted some of the replies here.

I like trans women are trans women. And most have a penis.

How about, trans women are trans women and they are all biologically male.

Eggonmychips · 27/07/2023 14:02

BigMaggieShoes · 26/07/2023 16:30

What about:
"It's intrusion not inclusion"

I like this!

Brk · 27/07/2023 15:16

“Reality Matters”

“Men don’t decide what a woman is”

“Gender appropriation is exploitation”

Screamingabdabz · 27/07/2023 15:23

I’m also looking for a good slogan I can sharpie quickly in opportune places… and I do like some of these. The wheeesht one not so much. I love the spirit of it, and I’m all for Scottish women using it but if it falls on stony ground for many folks that don’t understand it, it’s a bit of a wasted opportunity to educate imo.

mrshoho · 27/07/2023 15:37

TWAM
(For a sharpie opportunity)

DogandMog · 27/07/2023 16:49

Sex is binary, not bimodal.

Karyotypes are not sexes.

Sex is WHY women are oppressed and gender is HOW.