Men posting on ladies only interest groups

[Dahliasandpansies]

I like trail running and am a member of a Facebook group which specifies 'ladies only'. Along comes a man, does a post about talking about wearing make-up whilst running. And everyone just goes along with it – tips, preferences etc. Why this continual insertion into our spaces? I wanted to post this but my Facebook page bio refers to my profession and company.

This isn't a woman only group, nor a woman only thread. And what do you mean he arrived to educate us all? - he posted one post giving his thoughts like everyone else.

So no, it's nothing like that.

Part of what happens in these situations I think is down to bad judgement.

There are cases where it can be ok for an exception to be made for a rule. I belong to a woman only online interest/social group. Quite a long-standing one with a regular group over many years. We did once have a man come on a few times - after his wife, a long time member, had dies. Mainly to update the members on what was happening. No one minded, everyone was happy, and said please pop in once in a while to let us know what was happening with the kids if he liked. It would have been upsetting if he hadn't reached out at all.

But there is a pretty large group of people who don't seem to be able to understand when exceptions make sense, and when they don't. They are sort of gullible, and men like this guy depend on them.

Theoretically perhaps, but while this may be an interesting theoretical issue to some, for others it's the quality of our real lives being eroded, as hobbies and single-sex communities we once enjoyed are stolen from us.

The misogynists would hate it, yes, but so would the women who have lost out. We would be cutting off our noses to spite our faces. For women, it's not about leaving them to it, it's about retaining our own quality of life and saying no to men in women's single-sex spaces.

I was really just stretching a point to its hugely (il)logical extreme. What a world where men barge in to a women only space, getting off on the chaos that ensues. Even more so living in the heads of women that feel compelled to leave. But hating the possible end point if all that remains when the dust has settled, is these new women have only themselves for company, with no more real women to bully.

What have I done? I've chosen to speak up when I can, not to censor, to challenge. It's nothing in the grand scheme, but what else can you do. And I certainly won't vote to let the party of institutional misogyny into power.

As you've said, maybe the male POV isn't wanted on this thread in particular. All I really wanted to do is share some of what I've read that really proposes the institutionalised hate of women now given a pass by so many, incl more women than you could contemplate, works on so many levels.

These guys know they're pissing off those in the group other than their middle class female cowardly facilitators, and that their effect carries on as women quit. That must be quite the power to wield, and feeling to get off on.

I'll jog on now.

These guys know they're pissing off those in the group other than their middle class female cowardly facilitators, and that their effect carries on as women quit. That must be quite the power to wield, and feeling to get off on.

Yes, absolutely, but I don't think it's fair to put all of the blame for their inclusion on the heads of the group organisers, given all the societal grooming and bullying that's rife around these issues.

Yes, it would be wonderful if every woman could stand up and say no to every man wherever they wanted to, but that's not the world we live in, and the transwomen muscling their way into wonen's single-sex spaces know this and use this.

It's particularly the wearing make up whilst running or similar theme that would annoy me (like Sweaty Betty sending me cards telling me I need bum sculpting leggings). Just running isn't enough, it's being reminded that women are expected to also look attractive whilst doing it. Personally I feel better when out of breath and sweaty and maybe covered in mud because it's about what my body can do, I don't want to have to think about what I look like.

Absolutely not. The roots for this rot really run deep, worse than Japanese Knotweed.

The organisers will be half worried if they tried to ban him, would they be open to being sued, and half worried what he'd say on FB, and the ensuing stick.

Just easier all round to let the poor dear in, and put up with the angst of members and any possible departees.

Somebody needs to pipe up and have a rant on a make-up-while-running post about the misogyny of women being expected to/feeling they need to wear makeup at all. Especially while running. Go on about how femininity is not defined by long hair or makeup, or what you wear, preferably whilst quoting Andrea Dworkin or Germaine Greer. That would take the wind out of an AGP's sails, without even mentioning the word trans. He has nothing without his shallow coating of a very superficial idea of what a woman is. And it would turn the focus back to true womanhood. But yes, he shouldn't be there in the first place.

I've also noticed men modelling female clothes on Vinted. I'm not going to buy anything that's being shown at it's worst advantage on a completely wrong body shape, you plonker. Most of the women selling their clothes don't even model them themselves, because they often don't fit well, that's why they're selling them.

Just easier all round to let the poor dear in, and put up with the angst of members and any possible departees.

Transwomen can be really intimidating when they're requesting accommodations though, even when they're asking nicely. It can be really hard to say no to them and at least some (if not many) of the women who say "yes, you can join then" don't do it because they feel sorry for them but because they feel intimidated by them. Yes, they're concerned about the repetitional risk and threat of legal action, but also there's the ago-old dynamic that they are women and transwomen are men demanding access who don't like to be told no.

Not all women give in for this reason, obviously, and there are many who will be quite vocal about how marginalised transwomen are (some of whom will genuinely believe that and some of whom will simply say it to avoid being vilified). But there is definitely a subset of women's group organisers who don't open the gates to transwomen willingly and who agonise about the decision they feel they've been forced into to ensure the survival of the group they've built up over years.

It's a horrible position for women to be in and once an organiser has been asked, there's no way of making the problem go away without having to take a stand one way or another. Groups typically either go smaller and underground or get on board with TWAW, so either way the group is radically changed by the request for access.

I'm not that kind of man, but I've met the type, every so often in my client base and occasionally socially. But no, I can't imagine the sheer anxiety and fear.

Even if we give a slight pass to the odd individual who isn't looking to run women's faces in it, the determined ones most certainly are.

The bonus for them is those women who happily wave them thru, happy to end lifelong relationships with GC friends over this.

That's like the Golden Ticket for these guys. Can't imagine these males ever thinking they'd get so lucky that actual women would step over women to promote them.

There’s a couple of men on a Facebook group I follow. One in particular is a prolific poster that gets so many comments about how wonderful he looks (reader: he does not) but what’s interesting is how he has managed to get this following. He doesn’t engage with anyone else’s posts, only replies to comments on his posts. So self centred.

I'd want to comment on FB that trail-running is one of those activities where women get to be just themselves and step away from societal attempts to push a particular way to be a successful way to 'be a woman' on women. So it's not really the place for conversations about fripperies like make up. Could people start another conversation group for that and, in the interests of inclusivity, make it a sex-neutral space because obviously in this day and age many men wear make up and many women don't.

I wonder if we're in the same group! I've never commented on any of the photos, because I want to say 'you look like a bloke in a dress and a bad wig' which wouldn't go down well with the transmaidens/group admins, because 'be kind'. He never comments on any other women's pictures ...