Lesbian mothers should be on birth certificates

[SapphosRock]

Great article from Kathleen Stock.

unherd.com/2023/07/lesbian-mothers-should-be-on-birth-certificates/

It is surprising to me that anyone who supports women's rights would oppose lesbian parents having equal rights to straight parents.

From the article:

Naming a second lesbian parent on a child’s birth certificate is a family-friendly move. Arguably, if you squint a bit, it’s even a socially conservative move — though agreeing probably depends on whether you take, as your baseline, a society where lesbians will have children anyway; or whether you think of it as a cultural aberration that could, with discouragement, be stopped. Either way, putting a second lesbian partner on a birth certificate officially defines and legitimises her parenting relation within the family, allowing the burdens and joys to be shared between two adults, and adding a second layer of protection for the child. Family stability is important for good childhood outcomes, and this measure seems to provide some.

The recording of parents is precisely to record who is responsible for the child. And unless and until certain posters are willing to advocate for listing sperm donors instead of the mothers’ husbands in the case of straight couples, your homophobia slip is showing.

I am advocating for both being listed to bring heterosexual married couples into alignment with lesbians ie the mother and the social parent (father) is listed with additional information about the sperm/egg donor.

I'm sorry if I've misunderstood what has happened in Italy @Triplemove. I've been going by news reports. Can you explain what I've got wrong or direct me to a reliable account please?

And I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by lesbians being held to a higher standard. It is a fact that the majority of children are conceived via PIV sex. I don't see the point in getting them all DNA tested. But every woman who has had fertility treatment in the U.K. is recorded by the HFEA.

Sorry that first paragraph was a quote from @ChokkaQuokka

Agreed.

Its not essential for the father to be listed on the birth certificate.

A birth certificate records the biological parent - that is a fact. The birth certificate is a statement of fact.

a birth certificate records the birth mother. Who, as has already been explained, isn’t the biological mother in the case of egg donation.

and, as has already been explained, in many jurisdictions, the female partner of the birth mother can also be recorded. Recording the person who remains responsible for the child if something were to happen to the birth mother is in the interests of the child. Recording a sperm donor who isn’t involved adds no benefit.

But again, thank you for making clear where you stand. It shows just how much both gender supremacist overreach and the reaction to it end up hurting lesbians.

Its not essential for the father to be listed on the birth certificate.

I know. But some in this thread are advocating precisely for the sperm provider to be listed not the non-birth mother.

@BodgerLovesMashedPotato - the long form certificate (which you need to show to prove parental responsibility) of an adopted child states they're adopted. Only the short form is the same as a standard birth certificate.

@excellenfish - under U.K. law, women who give birth are their child's mother, regardless of the gametes she used to conceive.

The children who have been born using donor sperm disagree with you @ChokkaQuokka

Two.

I understand that the mother who carries the egg may be different to the mother who creates the egg which is complex and in this instance I can see how a third person should have their name on the certificate. I do not think that these should replace the biological father - but of course it is very probable that this is left blank on the certificate. That has been the case over the last few centuries where some children have no named father. With modern DNA testing it means that a child can trace a parent if they wish - in previous times this has not been possible.

It has been explained to you three times now that this is legally and factually incorrect. Its really rude to keep saying the same thing

You dont think ghe person who gave her egg and raised the child should replace the donor?

Do most lesbian couples swap eggs? If so, why?Is this not more risky health wise?

The non birth partner gives her eggs to the birth partner via ivf.
That way they both feel that they have contributed to the child because idiotic people still make them feel second rate to straight couples

Because of all the people like those on this thread, maybe

I don’t know your history or why you think it’s appropriate to deprive children of an automatic legal link to the parent who will care for them if something happens to the birth mother.

but it’s ridiculous to assert that “knowing where you came from” can only happen via a birth certificate. My children have a first name, a medical history, several photos and a very sweet essay for their donor, as well as the right to contact him once they are 18. And at some level I hope they will and they aren’t disappointed.

if the children of donor insemination in your life are unhappy, was that perhaps the result of initial secrecy?

And I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by lesbians being held to a higher standard. It is a fact that the majority of children are conceived via PIV sex. I don't see the point in getting them all DNA tested. But every woman who has had fertility treatment in the U.K. is recorded by the HFEA.

The women who access fertility treatment are recorded, but it’s not public record. So the children will only know if the parents choose to tell them. Which I can assure you, lesbian couples do.

But over 80% of the children born using gamete donation are born to straight couples. It’s impossible to track without DNA testing. What about couple who go overseas or move area within the U.K.? Other than DNA testing, what can you do, put out a BOLO to all hospitals? “If Jane Smith gives birth its donor conceived, her husband is not a biological father and do not record him as such”

The majority of children who do not know their biological parents are born into straight couples, but everybody here is concerned with the lesbians.

I don't understand how a biological tie to a child is very important ( both mothers contributing, at a risk to the gestational mother ) but also simultaneously completely unimportant (no father on birt cert).

I’d love to see your evidence that donor eggs are a terrible medical risk if it’s a lesbian couple but of no concern whatsoever when it’s a straight woman.

FTR we didn’t use egg transfer but I know many lesbian couples who have.

No straight woman would use another woman's eggs if hers were viable.

I will Google the risk element and revert.

Dont be so idiotic.

You cant possibly understand why a woman starting a family with another woman, giving her eggs and raising a child with the woman she loves would be more worried about being on tbe bc than she would the man who donated his sperm who the child will never know?

If you genuinely cant fathom it I'm not sure a logical discussion is for you.
If you can but just dont like it, you do you.

Another stupid comment.

She doesnt need to, because shes already contributing to the baby with the father!
The gay woman isnt.

Funny that on a thread about lesbians.

Sorry, you think a donor sperm man will take in a child if something happens to the mother 🤣

Like the eggs know the woman's a lesbian 🤣