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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

You want HRT? Not so fast! You want the pill? Here you go!

73 replies

EarthSight · 20/07/2023 22:59

Just a rant really.

I have challenged about 2 GPs and 2 gynaecologists with the following long question (which I may create a separate post about) -

Why is is that every day in this country, women are freely provided with the contraceptive pill? It's not difficult to get and it is often suggested for a variety of ailments by GPs. The hormones they are prescribed are synthetic versions that are not risk free to take. They also completely stop ovulation. This includes prescriptions to teenage girls who haven't even stopped growing yet. There could be a brief chat about it, but unless you have a serious condition, it will be treated as no big deal.

Yet, women who are adamant that they are in peri-menopause, or even in menopause are treated as if they have asked for radioactive material when they ask to try HRT. Like the pill, HRT is also hormones . However, you can get regulated bio-identical hormones which are a closer match or identical to a woman's own hormones (unlike the contraceptive stuff). HRT is used in many cases to simply top-up a woman's existing hormones, not completely replace them and stop ovulation all together as in the pill.

You know what? All of them got a bit flustered when I asked them that and could not give me a decent answer. I was like they didn't like that I had asked.

The reason is likely because the government wants to stop unwanted pregnancy, which is related to women's wellbeing of course, but has more to do with economics and savings to the public purse.

HRT......well......no one seems to really give a fuck about older women, who apparently have lost their minds when they too ask for hormones.

I understand that some GPs are reluctant to prescribe because of some studies (some of them are worth looking into) linking HRT to increased risks of breast cancer.....but, the pill apparently lowers the risk of some cancers but raises others and things like deep vein thrombosis, and GPs seem only too pleased to recommend the pill as treatment for everything from acne to migraines.

OP posts:
RunningAllDay · 21/07/2023 20:22

As a GP I am sorry to hear that there are women who would really like to try HRT and aren't being offered it. It is first line for vasomotor symptoms (antidepressants are NOT). Obviously there are women for whom HRT is unsuitable but you should be leaving the consultation understanding why, if that is you. The NICE guidelines are freely accessible to read (https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng23/chapter/Recommendations#managing-short-term-menopausal-symptoms) and I think not complicated - go in to your consultation armed! I do not think the experience of patients in any of the surgeries in which I have worked (4 in the past 5 years) would say they had to battle for HRT so I'm sorry it is still not well treated in other areas. Training for new GPs in my experience covers menopause in great detail, so it may be worth seeking out younger docs.

Recommendations | Menopause: diagnosis and management | Guidance | NICE

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng23/chapter/Recommendations#managing-short-term-menopausal-symptoms

Original poster
EarthSight · 21/07/2023 20:39

Thanks for your input @RunningAllDay . For me, I do understand why GPs would want to explore other potential issues out of diligence. What I don't get is the hesitancy to even trial the gel when GPs are already handing out hormones freely for other issues. No medical professional has satisfactorily answer that contradiction in approach so far.

OP posts:
borntobequiet · 21/07/2023 21:03

Training for new GPs in my experience covers menopause in great detail, so it may be worth seeking out younger docs.

It may be, but for the record I’d like to say that the GPs who have been most helpful and sympathetic to me have been older and male. I got the impression that they had a better understanding of the problems through the personal experiences of the women in their lives.

GardeningIdiot · 21/07/2023 23:42

jeaux90 · 21/07/2023 11:39

GPs are not automatically trained in menopause. It's an elective extra, optional which amazes me.

The NICE pathway dictates they have to ask if you want antidepressant's according to my lovely GP who sighed when she asked if I want them because she was obliged to.

But I have had no issues getting it prescribed and actually I went back and asked after 9months how do you know it's an effective dose. My GP did a blood test and said my testosterone was on the floor so got referred to the clinic for that too.

Yea you have to be a bit pushy, you definitely shouldn't have to.

That's very odd because here is the relevant NICE guidance:

You want HRT? Not so fast! You want the pill? Here you go!
AutumnCrow · 22/07/2023 00:09

Nellodee · 20/07/2023 23:43

Add me to the list of women who struggled to get hrt. My GPs attempted solution was anti-depressants, which are another thing they seem happy to hand out like candies, despite being far from complication free themselves.

Oh yes, and add in:

Opiates
Pregabalin
Strong DMARDS
Strong NSAIDS
PPIs
Linaclotide
Nortriptyline

You mad, anxious, crippled old hag

But ask for a little bit of oestrogen after a hysterectomy and having ovaries removed? Oh no, sorry love, you might have side-effects.

You honestly couldn't make this shit up.

Saverage · 22/07/2023 07:31

I've been on HRT for 10 years (since 44), had no problem getting it. However, it was suggested by a nurse at the surgery (who was giving me the general over-40s check-up) who had been for menopause training, and was menopausal herself.

I saw a young female doctor at a later point as I wanted to change the type of HRT and she was clueless, and told me to go back to see the nurse again, as she had the training.

Florissante · 22/07/2023 07:36

SavBlancTonight · 20/07/2023 23:13

Well no, its true.

I fully appreciate others might have more difficulty but certainly me and my friends have not.

I also do not think the pill is easily available because the government don't want women to.have babies. In fact, do a little research and tou will find that the government actually wants MORE babies (they just don't want to help pay for these babies. Typical Tories).

Show quote history

Labour have said that they will not reverse the policy of paying child benefit for only two children should they win the next General Election.

poshme · 22/07/2023 08:31

I was refused HRT and offered antidepressants by a young female doctor. She told me HRT had lots of risks.

I paid to go private. Got HRT, and updated my local GP. Then saw a different female NHS GP who told me she would have prescribed HRT straight away. So I paid £600 because I got the 'wrong' GP at my surgery. Angry

I was on the combined pill before. No one ever mentioned risks of that to me.

AIBot · 22/07/2023 08:37

LMNT · 21/07/2023 10:58

It’s the allopathic education of doctors coupled with the misogynistic nature of medical gaslighting.

Young women with any menstrual/hormonal issues = contraceptive pill to mask all the symptoms instead of treating holistically.

Older women = menopause is a “natural” process and doesn’t need to be medicated.

This is what they learn! Remember that doctors are diagnosticians that must match a diagnosis to the right pharmaceutical product.

Yes.

As a young woman with menstrual problems, why did no doctor suggest I try specific vitamins, or lifestyle changes? They just reached for the pill prescription.

As a now menopausal woman, perfectly capable of researching all the alternatives to drugs, and having tried lifestyle changes, I’m being asked if I really want HRT and don’t I want to try vitamins first?

Original poster
EarthSight · 22/07/2023 14:10

@AIBot I’m being asked if I really want HRT and don’t I want to try vitamins first? 😂

It just such a large contradiction in approach.

If they took a blood test and found you to be deficient, or close to deficient in a few vitamins, I get that, but otherwise it's time wasting.

@poshme
@AutumnCrow
@Nellodee

I'm not so familiar with the others, but am a little familiar with Nortriptyline, but I would definitely not want to be on an anticholinergics longterm.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/two-types-of-drugs-you-may-want-to-avoid-for-the-sake-of-your-brain

Plus, all the main thing they're doing by prescribing you those is numbing your emotions., a well known effect of several anti-depressants. Some are also reputed with lowering your sex drive. I know someone on amitriptyline, and although she did come off it and it was do-able, I think it was a tough week for her.

drugs and dementia

Two types of drugs you may want to avoid for the sake of your brain - Harvard Health

Benzodiazepines and drugs with strong anticholinergic effects have been linked to Alzheimer’s disease in people who take them. There are alternatives to both types....

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/two-types-of-drugs-you-may-want-to-avoid-for-the-sake-of-your-brain

OP posts:
AIBot · 22/07/2023 14:33

Yes I know, it’s crazy isn’t it?

poshme · 22/07/2023 15:23

I started by increasing my exercise, improved my diet, taking multivitamins, glucosamine, starflower max strength, high strength Vit D. To make sure they couldn't say that was the issue.

NHS offered sertraline (14 days on, 14 days off). I refused.

Every one of my symptoms reduced or disappeared after 2 weeks of HRT...

OscarsAmmonite2 · 22/07/2023 15:37

RunningAllDay · 21/07/2023 20:22

As a GP I am sorry to hear that there are women who would really like to try HRT and aren't being offered it. It is first line for vasomotor symptoms (antidepressants are NOT). Obviously there are women for whom HRT is unsuitable but you should be leaving the consultation understanding why, if that is you. The NICE guidelines are freely accessible to read (https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng23/chapter/Recommendations#managing-short-term-menopausal-symptoms) and I think not complicated - go in to your consultation armed! I do not think the experience of patients in any of the surgeries in which I have worked (4 in the past 5 years) would say they had to battle for HRT so I'm sorry it is still not well treated in other areas. Training for new GPs in my experience covers menopause in great detail, so it may be worth seeking out younger docs.

I went into my GP consultation 'armed' with the Nice guidelines for menopause and anxiety and got (wrongly) diagnosed with health anxiety ( because I'd looked things up apparently)

There's just not enough time in 10 minutes for a consultation.

JenniferBooth · 22/07/2023 15:37

With the former they can have sex freely with otherwise fertile women without the risk of having to pay for offspring whilst also enjoying maximum sensation. And with HRT, what’s in it for men

@PortiaWithNoBreaks You have articulated well, what i have been thinking. Im on the Mini Pill at 50. Doctors in the NHS recommend women staying on it till 55 Fucking 55 partly due to ectopic pregnancy risk Im child free by choice but was refused sterilisation despite asking in my twenties and thirties Now have no idea where i am with menopause because my periods may have stopped due to the mini pill

OscarsAmmonite2 · 22/07/2023 15:38

It was a young female GP too!

Newgirls · 22/07/2023 15:42

PortiaWithNoBreaks · 20/07/2023 23:42

I’ve wondered about this too given that the pill is far more ‘dangerous’ than HRT and you can just get the pill from the pharmacy now. And then I wonder, well what’s in it for men in these 2 scenarios?

With the former they can have sex freely with otherwise fertile women without the risk of having to pay for offspring whilst also enjoying maximum sensation. And with HRT, what’s in it for men?

Yep.

hrt might keep women in the work place in the top jobs too…

gamerchick · 22/07/2023 15:44

borntobequiet · 21/07/2023 09:14

I have had no trouble being prescribed HRT. But my friend was only given it after she said her lack of libido was making her husband dissatisfied with their sex life and it was undermining their marriage.

Ooo that's good. Sneaky. Going to mentally store that one away.

LittleMrsPretty · 22/07/2023 15:44

The risk of taking hormones increases as you get older, but that risk is different for everyone and this should be discussed with a Dr rather than a blanket no.

RunningAllDay · 22/07/2023 15:47

@OscarsAmmonite2 agree 10 mins is not enough. Am sorry to hear all the negative stories on here - depressing that we are still not listening to women.

Have to say I have seen some women wanting HRT to keep their husbands happy though.

@JenniferBooth you should be able to get an FSH test to get menopause 'diagnosed'.

RunningAllDay · 22/07/2023 15:48

Haha crosspost @borntobequiet - whether truth or ruse

JenniferBooth · 22/07/2023 15:50

@RunningAllDay i was told the Mini Pill would interfere with the result

RunningAllDay · 22/07/2023 15:53

JenniferBooth · 22/07/2023 15:50

@RunningAllDay i was told the Mini Pill would interfere with the result

That is not true. Image from NICE CKS.

You want HRT? Not so fast! You want the pill? Here you go!
Jongleterre · 22/07/2023 16:03

I'm
More concerned at the agenda to push all women into having HRT.

Many of the symptoms that I read on here that women are putting down to the menopause seem to me to be treated as 'just take HRT' as a response instead of looking at diet and lifestyle.

Being overweight as you get older is the single worst thing other than perhaps smoking, which causes all manner of health problems.

fetchacloth · 22/07/2023 16:03

borntobequiet · 21/07/2023 09:14

I have had no trouble being prescribed HRT. But my friend was only given it after she said her lack of libido was making her husband dissatisfied with their sex life and it was undermining their marriage.

I had to pull that stunt to get prescribed HRT and it worked.
Shocking really, just shows that men's opinions call all the shots 🙄 😳

Ourladycheesusedatum · 22/07/2023 16:25

Jongleterre · 22/07/2023 16:03

I'm
More concerned at the agenda to push all women into having HRT.

Many of the symptoms that I read on here that women are putting down to the menopause seem to me to be treated as 'just take HRT' as a response instead of looking at diet and lifestyle.

Being overweight as you get older is the single worst thing other than perhaps smoking, which causes all manner of health problems.

And HRT can help you feel well enough to continue previous lifestyle. Including in my case quite a bit of keep fit stuff.
Whereas currently on no HRT for reasons, I am about dead on my feet. I've put on a stone since I stopped HRT in December. I feel like death, I used to walk everywhere (at work I could walk miles and miles, it's a huge place, now I get in a golf cart) I dont have the energy to do more than my job. I go home, I've no energy or interest to cook, I can barely keep up with the domestic drudgery and I dont care. My body just hurts all over, if we add in some tiny thing say a limp cos I stepped off a kerb badly, I'm just done for.

This is currently no way to live. I can see why women were put in mental institutions years ago, I'd quite like to go to one right now. Hopefully this is just a blip and HRT will be restarted soon, if it's not, then lead me to that institution.