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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour candidates

41 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 20/07/2023 16:58

Having dealt with many of the antisemites and the Corbinistas (and indeed those who are both) Starmer is piling up a whole pile of problems for the future with the candiates Labour are selcting. Hardly Barbara Castle standards sadly.

"Labour's candidate and likely winner for today's parliamentary by-election in Selby & Aintsy is a 25-year-old LGBT activist who describes Germaine Greer as an "abhorrent and dangerous transphobe". Keir Mather also criticises institutions that platform her."

Good thread with link to article in Mail

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1681912985114083330

Once Starmer gets his majority MPs who think like this will be the tail that wags the dog - they don't the accept the concept of compromise nor the idea that politics is the art of the possible.

I want to vote Labour again one day but if that means a leadership forever weakened by the barrell loads of TQ campaigners and Queer theorists they are letting in to trample over womne's rights what hope?

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1681912985114083330

OP posts:
DustyLee123 · 20/07/2023 17:00

I’m not voting Labour until they work out what a woman is.

FigRollsAlly · 20/07/2023 17:22

How depressing, and frightening too.

maltravers · 20/07/2023 17:32

Anti-semitism Starmer seems to be trying to deal with, but LGBTQ misogyny- fill your boots. Does he not get it, or does he not care?

PlanetJanette · 20/07/2023 18:03

Germaine Greer who talks about the ideally attractive boy being "old enough to be capable of sexual response but not yet old enough to shave. This window of opportunity is not only narrow, it is mostly illegal. The male human is beautiful when his cheeks are still smooth, his body hairless, his head full-maned, his eyes clear, his manner shy and his belly flat."

I'm not sure having candidates who are critical of GG is a bad thing.

TheirEminence · 20/07/2023 18:15

Greer has said many outrageous things in her career, for sure, but I would like a citation, if possible, with the date, please.

Abhannmor · 20/07/2023 18:26

I think that was from her book simply titled The Boy. It certainly doesn't invalidate her views on anything else.

ChristinaXYZ · 20/07/2023 18:37

Abhannmor · 20/07/2023 18:26

I think that was from her book simply titled The Boy. It certainly doesn't invalidate her views on anything else.

Quite. And I bet it was not that that caused the Labour candidate to dissmiss her. It is because she knows what and who women are and fights for sex based rights.

OP posts:
Ostryga · 20/07/2023 18:41

Getting seriously pissed off with Labour. First Clive Lewis who is not my no (I’m Norwich North) but his supporting open child abuse and very gleefully caused me to cancel my membership.

I’ve voted Labour since I could vote, have campaigned the last 2 elections. Have had such a strong bond with them for years and now feel politically homeless. I cannot support them while they’re throwing women under the bus to look good on Twitter. Idiots the lot of them.

PlanetJanette · 20/07/2023 18:43

Abhannmor · 20/07/2023 18:26

I think that was from her book simply titled The Boy. It certainly doesn't invalidate her views on anything else.

Just imagine for a second that a trans person said what Greer said.

How do you think it would be received on here?

Ourladycheesusedatum · 20/07/2023 18:45

PlanetJanette · 20/07/2023 18:43

Just imagine for a second that a trans person said what Greer said.

How do you think it would be received on here?

No idea, what has this to do with the people the LP are putting in for local by elections?

PlanetJanette · 20/07/2023 18:48

Ourladycheesusedatum · 20/07/2023 18:45

No idea, what has this to do with the people the LP are putting in for local by elections?

Well the case against them by the OP is that they don’t like Germaine Greer.

So I would think that Germaine Greer expressing essentially pererastic views is pretty relevant to whether we should negatively judge anyone for opposing her.

KCandtheSunlightBand · 20/07/2023 18:49

I have never got over Lisa Nandy championing trans rapists in women’s prison,
“I believe fundamentally in people’s right to self ID… so I think that crimes that are recorded should be recorded as that person wishes.”You asked about whether trans people should be in women’s or men’s prisons. I think trans women are woman and trans men are men. So I think they should be accommodated in the prison of their choosing.”Said, I think at a hustings meeting for her to be party leader and cheered and clapped by most of the audience. They are just recruiting more of the same. Having voted for them all my life, I haven’t voted Labour since.

WhereYouLeftIt · 20/07/2023 19:00

@PlanetJanette is talking about an art history book Greer wrote twenty years ago.

To give the full quote, which @PlanetJanette has so carefully clipped, I've copied this from Wikipedia:

"In the book's opening pages, Greer writes: "Most people have accepted without question that women are treated as sex objects, viewed principally as body, with a primary duty to attract male attention. Though this is clearly true, it is also true that women are at the same time programmed for failure in their duty of attraction, because boys do it better. This is not good news for men, because a boy is a boy for only a very brief space. He has to be old enough to be capable of sexual response but not yet old enough to shave. This window of opportunity is not only narrow, it is mostly illegal. The male human is beautiful when his cheeks are still smooth, his body hairless, his head full-maned, his eyes clear, his manner shy and his belly flat."

Anyone who knows anything about Classical Greek and Roman art knows that it's full of boys and young men.

I think these Amazon reviews sum the book up quite well:

"study of the changing depiction of boys and young men throughout the history of art, including cupids, archangels and frightened little boys in armour."

and

"Germain Greer courts controversy knowingly. If you get offended by what she writes you are missing the point. The allegations against her in writing this as an advocation of paedophilia are totally stupid. That is, unless you get turned on by the old masters. There is no titillation here unless you enjoy the raunchier side of Greek myth. For me this book was interesting while she was setting up her argument but rapidly became repetitive as Greer rolled out example upon example of how boys are portrayed in art throughout history. Apart from all the pictures Greer's argument stales in later chapters and she resorts to endless retellings of how boys are 'used' in myth/legend and folklore which becomes a bit tiring. However the pictures and the fact the Germaine is a goddess carries this book into the 'good' category."

Not the first book she wrote on art, I think that would be "The Obstacle Race". It's often forgotten that Greer was a Professor of English, she taught at the University of Warwick, for heavens sake! I think I might even have one of her books on Shakespeare on my shelves.

Tanith · 20/07/2023 19:01

He made that remark as a student 5 years ago, when nearly every institution was captured, including the Conservative party.

Do you have any more recent evidence?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/07/2023 19:02

I'm amazed that Lloyd Russell-Moyle has never received any sanction fro labour despite his (checks notes) open aggression, intimidation of Miriam Cates in the Commons, sharing a platform with an criminal repeatedly threatening VAWG and countless other anti social behaviours. It's amazing who gets to be an MP in the labour party these days 😮

TheGreatATuin · 20/07/2023 19:11

WhereYouLeftIt · 20/07/2023 19:00

@PlanetJanette is talking about an art history book Greer wrote twenty years ago.

To give the full quote, which @PlanetJanette has so carefully clipped, I've copied this from Wikipedia:

"In the book's opening pages, Greer writes: "Most people have accepted without question that women are treated as sex objects, viewed principally as body, with a primary duty to attract male attention. Though this is clearly true, it is also true that women are at the same time programmed for failure in their duty of attraction, because boys do it better. This is not good news for men, because a boy is a boy for only a very brief space. He has to be old enough to be capable of sexual response but not yet old enough to shave. This window of opportunity is not only narrow, it is mostly illegal. The male human is beautiful when his cheeks are still smooth, his body hairless, his head full-maned, his eyes clear, his manner shy and his belly flat."

Anyone who knows anything about Classical Greek and Roman art knows that it's full of boys and young men.

I think these Amazon reviews sum the book up quite well:

"study of the changing depiction of boys and young men throughout the history of art, including cupids, archangels and frightened little boys in armour."

and

"Germain Greer courts controversy knowingly. If you get offended by what she writes you are missing the point. The allegations against her in writing this as an advocation of paedophilia are totally stupid. That is, unless you get turned on by the old masters. There is no titillation here unless you enjoy the raunchier side of Greek myth. For me this book was interesting while she was setting up her argument but rapidly became repetitive as Greer rolled out example upon example of how boys are portrayed in art throughout history. Apart from all the pictures Greer's argument stales in later chapters and she resorts to endless retellings of how boys are 'used' in myth/legend and folklore which becomes a bit tiring. However the pictures and the fact the Germaine is a goddess carries this book into the 'good' category."

Not the first book she wrote on art, I think that would be "The Obstacle Race". It's often forgotten that Greer was a Professor of English, she taught at the University of Warwick, for heavens sake! I think I might even have one of her books on Shakespeare on my shelves.

It's always taken out of context, isn't it?
Discussing about how boys have been viewed artistically and historically from the dominantly male gaze is a world apart to personally 'expressing essentially pererastic views'.
I'm so tired of this.
Criticise Greer if you like, but do it in good faith on what she was clearly trying to say, not on what you can take out of context and twist in bad faith. Have some integrity ffs.

TheGreatATuin · 20/07/2023 19:30

In terms of candidates as well as politics in general, this is increasingly worrying me. Those of us on the left criticise Trump for his willingness to lie and make ridiculous accusations based on the flimsiness of pretexts (and rightly so), but it's become to clear that this is becoming as big a problem on the left.
If us lefties ever have a hope of making a positive difference, then adopting Trumpian politics is the worst way to do it. It's more important than ever for us to call it out.

Abhannmor · 20/07/2023 19:33

PlanetJanette · 20/07/2023 18:43

Just imagine for a second that a trans person said what Greer said.

How do you think it would be received on here?

That's a hypothetical. Germaine finding teenage boys aesthetically pleasing or attractive is moot as well. Her relationships seem to have been with adult males. She isn't campaigning incessantly to have the age of consent lowered. Neither has she said it's fine to have sex with a nine year old child.

Unlike another Australian who is a trans rights activist.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/07/2023 19:55

Abhannmor · 20/07/2023 19:33

That's a hypothetical. Germaine finding teenage boys aesthetically pleasing or attractive is moot as well. Her relationships seem to have been with adult males. She isn't campaigning incessantly to have the age of consent lowered. Neither has she said it's fine to have sex with a nine year old child.

Unlike another Australian who is a trans rights activist.

That other Australian also runs an organisation that goes into schools to talk to children about sex and argues that adults should teach classes of children how to give and receive pleasure .

Ourladycheesusedatum · 20/07/2023 20:39

PlanetJanette · 20/07/2023 18:48

Well the case against them by the OP is that they don’t like Germaine Greer.

So I would think that Germaine Greer expressing essentially pererastic views is pretty relevant to whether we should negatively judge anyone for opposing her.

I dont like Greer for different reasons. I still dont know what your pererasty comment is about. It's like you never read the book or something?

You didnt read the book did you?
You would know how out of context that is.

Add to that I dont much care what other people think about other people. I vote people in or out of power based on things like, attitude, willingness to work for the country, not a moron, what the manifesto says they will do versus what they have said and done previously, whether I think I'll be better off with that party and currently of course, if they can tell who is a man and who is a woman.
But who they dislike, frankly none of my business. How they talk about those unliked people can be very illuminating.

ChristinaXYZ · 20/07/2023 20:41

PlanetJanette · 20/07/2023 18:48

Well the case against them by the OP is that they don’t like Germaine Greer.

So I would think that Germaine Greer expressing essentially pererastic views is pretty relevant to whether we should negatively judge anyone for opposing her.

No the case against them by OP (see my last comment) is that Mather does not like Germaine Greer's views on women's rights. Mather has said nothing on the quote about boys, stop setting up straw men. The reason the candidate does not like Greer is because he does not like upity women discussing their rights. the article I refer to quotes Mather as saying Greer is "an individual who has made dehumanising and downright dangerous comments about transgender women, and their rights as human beings" by which I assume he means that she stands by her right to describe biological sex when she says, as many people do, that men cannot become women.In other words Mather seems to object to Greer holding views that are worthy of respect in a democratic society.

Greer may well have sad other things which are dated or debatable but that is not what either Mather or me as OP were talking about so please stop trying to derail the thread whichhc is on Mather's views on women as exeplified by his view on Greer's views on women and not about Greer's views on boys. It is about Labour entrenching gender ideology on the Labour benches in parliament for years to come. It is about Labour throwing women under the bus and #labourlosingwomen !

OP posts:
Igmum · 21/07/2023 11:48

OMG and he got in! Just when Labour were starting to look (infinitesimally) better they recruit a bunch of TRAs as candidates. Is it that identity politics are so dominant these are the only activists around? Thoroughly depressing

Circumferences · 21/07/2023 11:52

PlanetJanette · 20/07/2023 18:03

Germaine Greer who talks about the ideally attractive boy being "old enough to be capable of sexual response but not yet old enough to shave. This window of opportunity is not only narrow, it is mostly illegal. The male human is beautiful when his cheeks are still smooth, his body hairless, his head full-maned, his eyes clear, his manner shy and his belly flat."

I'm not sure having candidates who are critical of GG is a bad thing.

I'm enjoying the takedown of this post in this thread 👍

Circumferences · 21/07/2023 11:56

I'm horrified by the backwards anti-womem Wokenazis Labour have adopted to represent the party.
Better off voting conservative even though they're ripping the country to shreds.
What a fucking choice.

borntobequiet · 21/07/2023 12:11

Circumferences · 21/07/2023 11:52

I'm enjoying the takedown of this post in this thread 👍

I am too.