Young lesbians being encouraged to think they are trans men

[Chamomileteaplease]

My daughter (I'll call her Annie) is at university and as far as I know, completely "captured".

I am hoping to talk to her this summer about a lot of this stuff. Don't worry, I will tread very, very carefully.

Annie is a lesbian and her girlfriend wants to be referred to as "they". Alarm bells rang and when I asked Annie if her girlfriend was happy being a girl and she said she isn't sure. That started my research! As if she could just choose 😞.

However, I have realised that I have gathered an awful lot of knowledge and info about trans identified males but not a lot on these young girls. And it feels very different.

She also has two female girlfriends who think they are boys. Again, 21 years old. I am not allowed to say "she" when talking about them.

So if any of you wonderful and helpful people could point me to anywhere with information about these young lesbians who are being brainwashed I would be so grateful.

I do realise that this is a minefield and I plan to approach all this very carefully with my daughter, but I feel I must do something.

💕
It is a minefield and yes I’ve noticed young lesbians identifying as enbee and gender fluid rather than as gay women.
In your situation I’d focus on having a good relationship with her even if you’re often biting your tongue rather than exploring the issue with her.

A lot of the terminology can seem odd but if it is just different ways to describe actual lesbians it is not much of a concern. The problem is that these linguistic machinations make it easy for blokes pretending to be lesbians muscle in on the scene.

There seems to be worrying evolution through steps of: Like women; get a girlfriend; cut hair short and only wear trousers; use an ambiguous or male name; ID as non-binary; use 'they' pronouns; identify as trans; use packers/binders; top surgery; testosterone...

I used to watch the videos of someone who went down this road - to start I wanted information/education and was on board and in agreement with her views, but suddenly realised she was veering from gay to trans. There are lots of such channels about that younger people can so easily get invested in.

If my DD starts on these when older, I'm comfortable for the first few only, but very aware of how easy it is to be declared unsupportive. We've tried really hard to reinforce that being a 'tomboy' is OK, but obviously that message is missing a lot of girls.

Yes I have been taking that approach so far - I do feel that we have a great relationship and always have. Trouble is, it is not only so hard having the elephant in the room, but I feel that it is my parental duty to help her. Help her not be brainwashed!

@latenightpartyrings your first paragraph is exactly how I feel about Annie's girlfriend. I am not worried about Annie herself, she seems happy being her feminine self.

However, this is what worries me - her girlfriend, to me, is your typical butch lesbian, yes short hair, trousers etc - all lovely. But it's like predicting a car crash. I feel that it is my human duty to help this girl, through my daughter. But I do need to know a bit more about it.

Honestly OP, I'm as GC as the next woman (the pesky kind with a womb) but I think this is not your fight to fight. Since time immemorial, young people have been going to university to try on different identities - now I appreciate, when I was at uni trying on a different identity didn't mean hormones and cutting off healthy body parts, but the principle is still the same.

You can't reach the girlfriend, she's not yours to save. The absolute best way you can protect your own girl is to maintain a strong relationship with her, to talk about difficult things and to always be a safe space for her to come back to. If you push on the gf's identity then you're setting up a dynamic where it's 'your mum hates me' which will push her further into the gf's arms.

Leave well alone. Uni is transitional (in the old fashioned sense of the word).

She's at uni and the pressure on them to conform for fear of the abuse/ alienation / threats is massive. I would keep completely quiet about my views - as @Lamelie points out above, it will be the quality of your relationship that will matter in the long run.

You're quite right to be concerned but I think as our children get older we really have to wait to be asked for our views / opinions. And then they're often unwanted 😄🙄
What will matter in all this is her own levels of critical thinking. My older children can spot my well intentioned interventions from a mile off. It's bloody hard parenting older children but imho, it's the active listening to them, encourage them to talk / hear what they're thinking that's most useful.

There is a world of difference between being happy being a girl and accepting that you are female

Not wanting to be female because of the body it results in , or to be seen as female by people who see men and women as different species is I think quite logical

Unfortunately lots of young lesbians disavow the word today. It’s seen as passé and somehow ick. Being ‘queer’ or ‘enby’ is much more socially acceptable in Uni or TQ circles. That’s because much of the contemporary TQ movement elevates ‘gender identity’ over bio sex and sexuality, in fact anything else.

So rather than the older lesbian politics of ‘lesbians are simply females who want sexual/romantic relationships with females - they can be butch, or feminine, wear clothes they like and have interests that are or aren’t traditionally feminine’ - now, performing femininity (rather than being female) makes one a woman. Ergo, if one is female, but not feminine in ways recognised by one’s own society and culture, one isn’t a woman at all. It’s regressive and the opposite of liberating.

I am not allowed to say "she" when talking about them.

I do feel that we have a great relationship and always have.

The ‘ great relationship’ may depend on you remembering what you are ‘not allowed’ to say.

This is a video about 3 lesbian women including Exulensic who discuss their experience at University (From around 1:08 into the video) and how trans ideology took over and what happened to their social circle.
I don't know if your daughter would watch it but it shows the 'hot housing' effect of the University environment and what happens after college, this is 10-15 years later.

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If a lesbian believes they are male, are they expected to date trans women "lesbians"? Have they found an exemption?

Your daughter has fallen in love with a girl/ young woman. If that person is on a journey towards being a transman, it will have a profound effect on your daughters self worth as a lesbian. I hope she can meet other older wiser lesbians who can show her how it can be when we recognise our own value as lesbians. Only problem is, we now mainly meet in secret because it is forbidden to meet without the T. It is incredibly sad to see girls who we could have been taking this route

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

To pick up on a few, yes indeed I feel we have a good relationship, IF I use her language. This is why I talk of the elephant in the room.

I also do get that the girlfriend is mostly none of my business but due to the effect on Annie plus as I said, normal human caring, it is hard.

Thank you for the Exulansic video, I will watch that properly later, it does sound very interesting.

I think you are right that I need to not lose sight of our relationship and not to jeopardise it. I would like to introduce the topic - and perhaps just ask her her thoughts for the moment (rather than me tell her mine! and I have many!!).

And yes to let her know I am here as a safe space rather than an unsafe space.

It is sad and worrying but thank you for understanding where I am coming from. It helps.

Just saying, as a homosexual woman, (I often don't use lesbian in conversation any more since it means everything but homosexual these days)

If you identify as pan, or a man, then as a lesbian people will shut up and leave you alone to date and have sex with other biological women.

Call yourself a lesbian? You'll be harassed to the nth degree to swear you will definitely do men like a good lesbian should and predicate your inner self, sense of desire and permit access to your vagina entirely based on what a man tells you is going on between his ears at any point in time.

It's so much less hassle to just not go there. And we're raising kids in this toxic threatening soup of homophobia covered in sparkly rainbows.

As some nutjob said to me on a MN thread lately 'we LOVE lesbians (by which we mean the right kind of manshagging, very compliant ones)'.

Please contact LGB Alliance! They are forming social groups and their point is to model Lesbians, women who love women in all their varieties, as a good thing! This would be great for your daughter and her girlfriend.
As a happy middle-aged Lesbian, when I first came out there were great older Lesbians who helped me, gave wise advice. It was sooo comfortable, our community was great. We were proud of being women!
Your daughter and girlfriend need this kind of model to develop their own strength and joy in being women.
the Queer movement creates self-hating women.

@Froodwithatowel

If you identify as pan, or a man, then as a lesbian people will shut up and leave you alone to date and have sex with other biological women.

Sadly that makes a lot of sense - I wonder if any of that is going on here. I have a memory that Annie told me whilst in sixth form that she thought she was pansexual. Crikey these poor kids.

@QueenHippolyta thank you too, that sounds a good idea. So great to hear from middle-aged lesbians 🙂 . I have seen their stuff on Twitter but will look at their website.

There's a website called positively lesbian, created by some young GC lesbians which is great. I'd definitely suggest it to your DD

https://www.positivelylesbian.org/

Yes, they have.
It's been going on for decades.
I greatly admire lesbian women who are vocal about their boundaries and what it means to be a lesbian in response to the manipulations of MRAs, but I can't criticise individual women who instead choose to identify as pansexual, enbee or trans to reclaim some (semblance of) autonomy.
And I think I agree with @LaviniasBigBloomers , OP.

My DD's friend went through this stage but returned to "she" by third year

You could show her the podcast Stone Butch Disco. It's about masculine lesbian women and it's a bit on the liberal side (which might be a good thing because it can feel safer to introduce) but it does have a lot of criticism of the homophobia in queer spaces and the refusal to recognise lesbian female as a specific thing. They interview detransitioners too. The woman hosting it was in queer academic spaces for a long time and quit academia when the lesbophobia became too much, so her perspective can be valuable for young women in these spaces.
I haven't listened to all of them, but the Lesbian Visiblity one is good, and the episode Girl Data is amazing on this subject. They did one with Lisa Selin Davis too.

www.thelesbianproject.co.uk