Labour canvasser today

[SirSamVimesCityWatch]

I'm in one the constituencies with a by-election coming up.

Just had a labour canvasser (woman, mid/late fifties) knock to ask if I was voting. I said yes I would be.

She asked if I knew who I was voting for. I asked if she knew what a woman was. I told her I was a single issue voter and that was the only issue that was going to decide how I voted.

Her response: "I believe a woman is anyone who believes themself to be a woman".

I told her in that case I have nothing else to say to her, and closed the door.

I would have loved to have actually put some of the issues to her (rapists in prisons, assaults in mixed sex spaces, including schools, destruction of women's sports etc) but my heart was already racing and I knew it would be like talking to a brick wall anyway.

But anyway - at least that's a clear pile in the eye for the whole 'it doesn't come up on the doorstep' nonsense.

So, I'm either voting Tory or SDP.

You used the term " criminal cunts". To my mind that is a form of prejudice against a whole group of disparate people, which seeks to demonise them and present them as less than human.

In the age of 24 hour news and social media saturation, alongside the erosion of the boundary between public and private - everything is magnified. Don't expect people on the Labour benches to come out squeaky clean, either.
All sorts of backroom deals, infringments of codes of conduct, irresponsible use of privilege; sexual misconduct will be revealed.

That's not to excuse bad behaviour - but all people, especially when in office, are capable of bad behaviour and of favouring their own specific interests.The specific interests may vary in nature - but people, by and large, are pretty much driven by the same motivations as each other.

I can’t believe that in the 21st fucking century ppl are expecting us to feel sorry for Labour because they can’t come out and say what a woman is

they know exactly what a woman is and the fact they won’t say do means they’re either scared or lying. Neither is great is it

@RebelliousCow they have done criminal things though, like... a lot. On an unprecedented scale for a government in this country, in fact.

There are so many other pressing issues facing this country, and which effect me every day, where as self ID, whilst I'm against it, is a tiny issue which doesn't affect me at all. It's not rational to base your entire vote on it.
Also, there hasn't been any SDP for a long time!!

Yes, a more important issue.

Once written into law, like in Canada for example, the supremacy of gender identity over sex will become almost impossible to roll back. I'm talking decades and decades if ever. Maybe not even in my daughter's lifetime.

That's why for many of us this the most important issue by far.

Tiny issue...

Yeah. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs..... then you haven't fully understood the situation.

You are very lucky that this is not affecting you every day yet. I'd like to introduce you to other women and girls in the world who aren't quite so privileged. And you need to realise that it's only a matter of time before you stop being one of the lucky ones.

It’ll be interesting to see what people say when cutlery rearranging is all it is.

Especially when they keep going on about the last time they were in and building a picture of more of the same.

More money. From where?

changing the legal definition of woman from “adult human female” to “adult human female and men who self IDthey have lady feelings and are therefore women too” affects every single sex based rights women have

its not a small side issue

I hope that even if that's not what you wanted to hear from me it proves a thoughtfulness on my part and that I am doing stuff and trying to come up with a workable solution within my own community; I'm not just an armchair warrior mouthing off.

Yes but you are drastically failing, as LoobiJee pointed out.

The Tories may be somewhat opportunistic on this issue (they'd be foolish not to be), but they are certainly not opposed to recognising and protecting women's sex-based rights as Labour continue to be, despite you "doing stuff".

Indeed.

You cannot make all of those accusastions, about "lack of care" about everyone, just because of their political party.

To my mind the. " culture war" is simply a product of people pushing back against social tendencies, policies and thinking with which they disagree, often with passion.

Of course, the Conservative party is going to make hay with the ridiculous position the Labour party has put itself in with regard to sex and gender. The Labour party has never once stood up for women as a sex class - (without having to redfine woman as an identity than anyone can buy into).
In fact many Labour MPs come out with most outrageous bullshit on this issue. They are ripe for the taking.

As an ex Labour party member ( in my case, in Liverpool) I have shed my own certainties and triibal loyalties and for the last few elections have spoiled my ballot. If there was a decent Tory standing in my ward who I liked and had respect for i'd vote for them., because in my city people vote Labour even though the Labour party local is riven with ideological fervour, bullying and intimidation and even though the local council is so corrupt and incompetent it is now under government over-sight.

Going forward I will only vote for a candidate who I like and respect; represents my interests and who I believe will have the integrity to stand by that, regardless of party.

I certainly will not be voting for Kim Johnson, my current Labour MP. She refuses to met with her constituents on the issue of women's sex based rights. She talks all about how she is there for the poor and marginalised in her community ( a large part of her ward is Toxteth - multi-ethnic/racial/deprived) - but I don't imagine she has revealed to the many minority women in her community what she has planned for their single sex sessions or spaces.

I wish them the greatest possible success

Come to my city, where the Labour leader and several officers were arrested for bribery and corruption, and as a result of which - the council is now under government cover-sight. One local councillor made accusations of sexual harassment against anotehr councillor and she has since left the party to stand as an independent........Lots of councillors have been abusing their privileges and using public resources to feather their own nests. Its rife!

And just as a reminder, the two women pictured smirking under this sign are -

Kirsten Oswald MP, SNP Spokesperson for Women and Equalities

And

Kaukab Stewart, a member of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

This is where we are in Scotland. Violence against women endorsed, even celebrated by our elected representatives.

you know that « criminal » actually means committing offences, right? Not just being nasty Towies

Plus ça change in Liverpool Im afraid

For some people it is an issue of fundamental importance.

My father was a trade union shop steward and life long Labour voter, but once he voted Tory on account of his strong support for grammar schools - which Labour is fundamentally opposed to.

Some things matter very much to people, and their voting behaviour reflects that.

I've just completed a year's worth of CBT, believe it or not to get me to reconcile and calm my reactiveness in this area, and to enable me to see more clearly and feel better about myself.

Part of the process has been peeling back the phenomena to see it more clearly, but also rising above it, to get a better overview.

And this has worked. I'm not so heated and cross, maintaining more a cold disdain, not so much towards the idiots at the forefront, or disillusioned youth, but to "my group", the elites that populate the professions and formulate public policy.

The last curtain to draw, or box to open here, and thus have a strategy for, is politics, those formulating political and public policy, who to vote for.

Can I really spend my interior life forming opinions on the madness of elites crowds, feel totally disillusioned with the outcome of New Atheist opinion making, end up with zero confidence in public figures incl the vast vast majority of left/left leaning/centrist politicians that maintain the "99.9% of women of course don't have a penis", and then in the final analysis say to myself, I'll put all that aside to vote for an institutionally captured Labour Party, LDs, Greens etc?

Right now that's not a circle I can square, my rationalising of emotions in this area in the last year having made me even more binary in my thinking.

A year ago I was angry but ready to accept the idea of personal pronouns and relenting on the idea of trans children/trans conversion bans and gender as a real thing to be accommodated.

Today, the anger is gone, because I've reconnected to material reality, and any party deep in in pronouns, "99.9% of women...", trans conversion bans etc, cannot command my respect, and thus not get my vote.

Thé poster you are responding to does not even know that there is an SDP. Finger not exactly on the pulse of current affairs.
but hey, it doesn’t affect her, la la la little fluffy clouds

Yes, I'm aware of what criminality implies. Criminality is an equal opportunities employer - certainly where I live.

Do you live here too?

People in Liverpool were so sick of Labour that for years there was a Lib Dem council. Plus, the Labour party nationally has never done anything for the city, and in fact, it was Labour that left the city off its HS2 Map and cancelled the proposed tram scheme.

Sorry I wasn’t responding to you, but to the pister accusing the government of criminality. Interested to hear what the specifics of that are. With all due respect to the law of libel of course ..

Yep, aware of all that. Also very curious to know how developers got permission to chuck all those eyesores up at the pier head. I’m not disagreeing with you.

Which eyesores are you referring to?

Can you give some specifics as to how Labour would be any different from the Tories? As far as I can ascertain, their economic policy is the same as the Tories'. If anything, they are more 'Tory'. And, I fear, more inclined to prove themselves when it comes to beating Tony's old war-drum. I've been in the Labour Party most of my life, but tribal loyalty is a content-free approach to voting and reduces politics to United v City, Liverpool v Everton.

The contempt with which Labour treat women who even mention sex-based rights is breathtaking and unprecedented. And the auto-repetition of mantras and slogans that they can't unpack, undermines everything else that they say they believe in.