Where to Start

[PepeParapluie]

I’ve been lurking for a while here and have seen lots of thoughtful, insightful and wise comments from the regular posters here. You are doing a good thing in creating a space where these issues can be discussed fearlessly and there are definitely lurkers like me watching and learning, even if it does take a while to pluck up the courage to say so!

I have spent lots of time reading (not just here) and learning about sex & gender issues and think I am now settled in my own gender critical viewpoint, and could discuss fairly confidently most of the issues thrown up. However, it would take hours of discussion to cover all the ground, and often other people won’t have the time or inclination to spend hours discussing it with me. Sometimes opportunities have arisen to discuss these issues with friends but l struggle to focus on the main and most accessible points.

Many of my friends just haven’t thought much about it and are TWAW by default if you like - think ‘live and let live’ and why wouldn’t we just be kind, but not because they’ve really engaged with things, just because that’s what seems to be socially accepted.

So I thought I’d ask - where do you start when discussing all this with people? What do you think are the clearest and easiest places to start for people who are new to the gender critical side? How do you boil it all down?

I'm glad you asked this, because I have been wondering about this myself. I have been starting conversations with strangers or at least people who aren't in my inner inner circle. And I'm finding a lot of good responses. I've started doing things like wearing iHeart J. K. Rowling T-shirts. Or purple green and white earrings. I seem to find that there's this little dance that Has to be had before the conversation can actually open up.
for example, talking about favorite books or movies I might bring up one of the Harry Potter books. People who are super into gender woo will almost always say something to the effect of yeah, the books are great but "too bad J. K. Rowling ___."
this is an immediate signifier, that they are not going to be responsive to a conversation in a positive manner. But if they say something like I" like those books too" or "I think people are too hard on her," You can kind of expand on the conversation slowly from there.

somebody else mentioned sports. And that's a good starting place. I find tiptoeing in is a good idea. once you meet somebody else's gender critical in the wild, you will usually find that both of you are very relieved to be able to talk about it.
I've been surprised by how many I have run across.

I have a collection of photographs. The girl guide leader in the dominatrix gear, Virginia Ivy on the cycling podium dwarfing the second and third, Princess Mom and the baby, the many threatening corset wearers armed with bats, oh it’s a big collection and growing every day

I have also a few pictures of the victims : the girls with their mastectomy scars, their irreversible hair loss, their irreversible stubble.

One picture is worth a thousand words, As they say.

The distinction between biological sex and cultural expressions of gender may be a good place to start, because it is accepted by many genderists. Few object to males who embrace the accoutrements of feminine culture, but things like changing rooms, toilets, sports, prisons are segregated for reasons of biological sex.

Males are bigger, stronger and more predatory. Regardless of how they identify (males who identify as women are actually over-represented among sex offenders).

I'm another who, if I ever say anything, sticks to personal stuff. I don't talk about JKR and I never use slogans or questions except 'what do you think' and 'what made you bring this up'. I talk about my experience at quite a high level in rowing, and how just about being selected for a squad changed my life. And about my experience in women's and mixed crews. And I talk about the ballooning number of adolescent girls and young women I know who report that they are men or nonbinary. I talk about my cousins and family friends who have transitioned. I use their preferred pronouns without question, of course.

Like most people on this thread, what you usually find is the majority of people who consider themselves unimpeachable trans allies on the right side of history, are actually not completely on board, because they've never talked about the detail and aren't comfortable doing so. They've read a few Pink News headlines, or the odd Guardian article. One of those ones where a blond athlete like Emill Bridges appears looking winsome all on her own with her bike or being interviewed. But they've never seen a picture of Emly standing in a group of women and frankly towering over them. That's because those pictures get spiked.

Thank you so much for these excellent interviews, I’ve spent the last 3 hours watching/listening. The Andrew Doyle one slightly marred by the sprinkling of “woke” throughout (“when did anyone woke ever produce a work of art?”).

I mean, you don't have to agree with everything he says - I certainly don't. But I think it's important to have gay male voices speaking out against gender ideology, because there is a tendency for the TRAs to claim that this is all just feminists throwing a hissy fit.

Oh yes, absolutely, it’s just that I understand “woke” to mean “alert to injustice”, and Doyle seems very alert to the injustice of the trans rights activists towards gay men and women.

I dislike the way “woke” has been cynically misappropriated to mean “leftish codswallop”, especially when they’d just discussed forced anti-intuitive linguistics from the TRAs.

I dislike the way “woke” has been cynically misappropriated to mean “leftish codswallop”, especially when they’d just discussed forced anti-intuitive linguistics from the TRAs.

By such organs as the Daily Mail. But now we rely on them for stories the Guardian doesn't touch. What a world we live in.