New to this board

[pyjamasallday22]

I'm a long time user of MN but never yet posted here. I think I am really quite left wing, quite inclusively minded and very much for equality.

But im left astounded and really confused by what's going on with the whole gender identity thing at the moment. I've come here to hopefully educate myself a bit and gain clarity on these feelings.

For example...the hate towards JK Rowling who in my eyes did nothing except stand up for women's rights. But now she's hated and labelled as a terf. Anyone who objects to trans women going in female public toilets is a terf. If you don't agree than a trans man giving birth to a baby is actually a woman then you're a terf. My mind is blown and it's so confusing to me what these people actually want. How the hell do I begin to explain it to my kids when I don't get it myself?

I honestly believe we all have the right to live the life we want. But the trans movement seems to be wanting to take the rights of those who have 'normal' gender identities away completely and make us one androgynous society. I'm not ok with that.

I know this must read incredibly ignorant and stupid to anyone who is clued up on this subject but I haven't really spoken to anyone else in real life about this (dh is very much 'two genders end of' type whereas I do try to get my head round it a bit) but I'm struggling.

I don't know how to put my point across in a way that doesn't make me look like I'm being intolerant or discriminating?

Break it down for me? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

You can't argue with anyone who believes in the intolerant bigoted ideology of genderism directly, you'll only end up going round in circles with them and getting mightily pissed off. But rest assured that things are changing.

Certain high profile dominant organisations who previously preached the most extreme scrips from gender ideology are back tracking slightly, only ever so slightly but they are. It's very encouraging.

Say what you need to say within the right context at the right time to the right people, or at other times say nothing just raise a sly eyebrow. For your own sanity that's easier and safer than going OTT on the message.

'Trans' used to refer to people who want to be the opposite sex, and I think still does include that group.
It now includes people who feel they have some sort of gender identity - belief about which kind of sex their brain is? How feminine or masculine they are? Not sure - and that gender is more important than sex, which becomes irrelevant even in sports, single-sex spaces, prisons, your dating pool, etc - although sometimes it means the same as sex, and others it's completely different. Self-id means that being a different gender or sex is defined by saying you feel you are it.

What they want is essentially for "gender identity" to replace sex in law and policy.

I know, it makes no sense.
If you believe there are two sexes, these can't be changed, and sometimes your sex is important (for healthcare, spaces, relationships, etc etc etc) then that view is called transphobic.

You will note that what TRAs call treating people differently because they are trans is actually treating people differently due to their sex.

Most of us don't even feel we have a gender identity, but can't say for sure because no-one will say what one is, how you find out what it is, what criteria is required to 'be a woman' etc. It's all linguistic sleight of hand and when you try to ascertain any concrete meaning you will get either ignored or given dishonest answers. I was in your position approx 6 years ago.

Most of us feel sympathy towards people that don't like their bodies for any reason, and for people who feel they would be happier being the opposite sex. None of this requires belief in a gender identity that is at best indefinable and at worst based on sexist stereotypes and old-fashioned ideas that all women and men have different brains.

Yes you are quite right to amazed at how anyone can believe anything so stupid as gender ideology. The belief that you are a man or woman is determined by your personality and interests and not biology. That society and laws should be reorganised around this belief. Sports, changing rooms, domestic violence shelters, hospital wards and prisons should all be based on gender identity and not sex. And to be incredulous that virtually every organisation and political party is pushing this. You are labelled a bigot if you have any questions and will lose your job, status and livlihood.
Let's not even get into the insanity of experimenting on children with surgery, puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. It is beyond a scandal.

How the hell do I begin to explain it to my kids when I don't get it myself?
Similar to how you tell your kids about religion. I consider myself to be an athiest and gender athiest.

I don't know how to put my point across in a way that doesn't make me look like I'm being intolerant or discriminating?

You have a right to say you believe that sex is biological and there are only 2 sexes.

Some people have adopted a belief that you can "idnetify" as a gender (which is a social construct) and in identifying then somehow change sex.

But this doesn't make you intolerant or discriminatory. Many people have any number of different beliefs and dont expect everyone to agree with them.

This is what the issue is. Not that what you think is wrong, but that a very small group, some of whom aren't even trans, have gained the power to tell anyone who doesn't agree with them is a transphobe, bigot, terf, Karen and so on.

That is the issue the silent colusion by many who dont believe you can change sex but stand by and allow those who say this outside to be bullied, loose their jobs, find their children alienated from them.

Many of us suspect that one of the reason trans activists (TRAs) have been so sucessful is that it has given men's rights activists (MRAs) a "legitimate" platform on which to say out loud their misogyny.

Unfortunately despite some small wins this social contagion shows no signs of dying down.

You are saying what 99% of the public believe but everyone is too scared to say in real life incase they lose their friends, jobs or get designated a bigoted terf

The idea that just saying you are the opposite gender magically makes you one is insane.

My belief is that trans people have been around for God knows how long quietly living their lives and those that passed have been in our changing rooms and bathrooms but just quietly getting on with things and not drawing attention to themselves

The tra's have come along and decided that gender as a social construct is more important than biology and people should no longer need to take hormones, or have surgery and should be treated as the sex they say they are regardless. This then means bearded 'women' being granted access to the naked lady Spa (their words). Trans women getting their lady dicks out in women's changing rooms, Mediocre male athletes winning women's titles and trans lesbians telling actual lesbians that having genital preference is transphobic (how dare they not want lady dick)

Basically the I'm a lady skit in little Britain had come true.

In my opinion the tra's have damaged the lives of legitimate trans people who were quietly passing and living their lives. They have been infiltrated by radicals who want to get their rocks off intimidating and over powering women and we are now fighting back.

I’m pretty new as well, and I came for the same reason. I don’t understand how I’m being lumped in with Nazis for something that seems so commonsense. And the fact that women from across the political spectrum agree on this issue should mean people listen to us but instead it means we’re all crazy bigots. Welcome, the women here are awesome and every time I come here I end up being able to articulate my own feelings better.
I agree with above, gender ideology is a faith-based belief system like any other.

I explain it like Christianity, because we’re atheists. This is what we know, this is what they believe, this is why I don’t believe it, don’t say out loud you don’t believe it, it really upsets them.

DH is right I fear, that little bit of common ground where we could meet in the middle has long been eradicated by ever-madder demands directly challenging women’s safety, dignity and fairness, not to mention children’s health and future function as adults.

Don’t try to get your head round a man in fishnets threatening to beat up women being a woman. He’s not. Don’t try to get your head around a depressed looking woman buckling under the pressures put on our sex being a man. She’s not.

I'm with previous posters : don't waste time arguing on the net. Better off talking to ppl discreetly in person. I don't argue in FB or news sites. Just 'like' comments I agree with. And send the odd tenner to a Gofundme. Gotta look after your mental health too.

It really is mind boggling to me. I genuinely don't begrudge anyone wanting to live the life that they feel is right for them. But I don't understand the desperate desire to change society to fit in with their wants. Of course some movements such as racial equality, gay marriage etc is warranted and right. But this isn't that. This isn't inclusive, it's pandering to the minority for fear of being labelled badly. And it's at the expense of women's rights and safety in some cases.

If you look at how society has already changed and the outpouring of hatred towards people like J K Rowling it's easy to see why people don't speak up.

I agree with the pp who said trans people have probably been quietly using the loo for years without anyone noticing or caring. It's the ones who want to make a great big display of being entitled to use them that wind me up. Do I want a grown man in a dress with a cock alone in a confined women's space with me or my young dd? No. And I've heard many stories about trans women seemingly getting off on this power, asking for tampons and being generally obnoxious and intimidating. It's sickening but god forbid you should ever call it out.

Welcome op. You don't need to "put your point across" especially if you don't get it. Believers will tie you in knots with their nonsense. Best thing to do if discussing is ask probing questions: what do you mean by trans? What is gender? How do i know if i have one? What do you mean, born in the wrong body? What is it that gets born into the wrong body? How?

When it comes to yours kids, it depends how old they are. If they're little, this is a lovely book

If they're older they might have been learning about it indoctrinated already. Keep an eye on Internet usage. Make sure that they do emobided activities and hobbies irl which show them how amazing their bodies are (cycling, climbing, martial arts, dance, whatever). You can tell them that some people believe that boys can be girls and girls can be boys, but most people simply believe that boys and girls can dress and do as they please and that doesn't mean that they've changed sex because that would be ludicrous.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/product/my-body-is-me/

Oh, and ask the school to show you the RSE lesson content

Just wanted to say welcome @pyjamasallday22 , this board has helped me so much! Enjoy being here 💐