Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What have you learned from the trans takeover

84 replies

Thatgirl1981 · 08/07/2023 17:28

what have you learned about
Your own political beliefs

has this issue made you think about others differently.

has this made you take a different look at other issues.

for me I now would say I have friends that are feminists 🤭
and I also started going to church and I never thought that would happen in my view we need religion a lot of the activists say they are secular but they are clearly in a cult religion

oh and I speak to my son about the importance of free speech more more than I ever thought I would need to

OP posts:
Thatgirl1981 · 08/07/2023 17:30

One more

I will not be voting for anyone time soon when you scratch the surface bar and few on the right and a few on the left they all believe the same

the conservatives are not conservatives

labour are not for the working class
the lib Dems are not liberal
the snp are not nationalists and sinn feinn was at the coronation 🤷🏿‍♂️they really are all just about power this if I can just get my party in charge is just for the birds the country is runs by activists and civil servants

OP posts:
FourTeaFallOut · 08/07/2023 17:35

I won't be going to church, for a start. Whenever anybody describes someone as a Nazi, I need to know exactly how they are using that word.
I am less fussy about where people are saying things and more interested in what they are saying.

Basically, I've had my arse handed to me for lazily leaning to the left without interrogating the landscape better. If it weren't for the I am Spartacus thread however many years ago now, it could have been years more before I looked up from the daily grind to see the new order.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/07/2023 17:45

I really really value freedom of speech.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 08/07/2023 17:50

turns out I really value having the freedom to make up my own mind and speak and behave accordingly.

Radio 4 is not as good as I thought it was. I don’t know if they’ve changed or I have. Both I think

being unthinkingly left wing does not make you a good person. In fact it might make you a fucking lunatic

no good ever comes from pretending things that aren’t true

terryleather · 08/07/2023 18:33

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 08/07/2023 17:50

turns out I really value having the freedom to make up my own mind and speak and behave accordingly.

Radio 4 is not as good as I thought it was. I don’t know if they’ve changed or I have. Both I think

being unthinkingly left wing does not make you a good person. In fact it might make you a fucking lunatic

no good ever comes from pretending things that aren’t true

Bernard, are you me...? 😆

nauticant · 08/07/2023 18:43

One thing I've learned is that scandals aren't necessarily hidden away and are then revealed to the public in a big pulling-back-the-curtain scene.

Sometimes scandals continue while more and more people become aware, and look on helplessly, and even though the clamour rises the scandal can continue on largely unhindered.

NecessaryScene · 08/07/2023 18:44

I think I understand what people are capable of more, and hence can understand how various bits of history happened better. Some things always seemed a bit unbelievable - less so now.

nauticant · 08/07/2023 18:48

It doesn't take a plan worked out beforehand to overwhelm society with a toxic ideology. It can happen organically if the starting conditions are amenable and then lots of different people with different agendas exploit the situation for their own benefits.

LonginesPrime · 08/07/2023 18:55

It has made me realise how utterly blind most people are to really freaking obvious misogyny.

The sheer amount of sexism that's been reframed as empowering (men) is just insane.

I've also learned how history simply repeats itself and that the same tactics get used by misogynists time and time again, decade after decade.

And that many women are incredibly susceptible to emotional manipulation and often harbour a dangerous undercurrent of internalised misogyny that leads them to undermine their own interests without ever noticing.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/07/2023 18:57

That the welfare and safety of children is no longer important.
That medical experimentation on children has suddenly become acceptable.
That children are now pawns in a battle to erode their boundaries and to sexualise them - and defending their rights to be children makes me a right wing Nazi bigot.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/07/2023 18:57

YY, what LonginesPrime said

terryleather · 08/07/2023 18:58

LonginesPrime · 08/07/2023 18:55

It has made me realise how utterly blind most people are to really freaking obvious misogyny.

The sheer amount of sexism that's been reframed as empowering (men) is just insane.

I've also learned how history simply repeats itself and that the same tactics get used by misogynists time and time again, decade after decade.

And that many women are incredibly susceptible to emotional manipulation and often harbour a dangerous undercurrent of internalised misogyny that leads them to undermine their own interests without ever noticing.

Yes, also this.

Tanith · 08/07/2023 19:01

We are monitored far more than I ever realised, and we know far less about our rights than we should.

QueenHippolyta · 08/07/2023 19:04

How most people have no moral center

BobaFeta · 08/07/2023 19:09

People are, on the whole, desperately stupid.
With special mention for middle class do gooders who should know better.

Hepwo · 08/07/2023 19:14

the conservatives are not conservatives

labour are not for the working class
the lib Dems are not liberal
the snp are not nationalists and sinn feinn was at the coronation 🤷🏿‍♂️they really are all just about power

Surely what we observe is pluralism.

Power is shared amongst all parties as MPs are from all parties.

We don't want a single party system.

Events shock the system enough without political revolution engulfing if we had complete regime change every five years.

Change is gradual.

Look how awful the sudden change of COVID was.

We need representation of many stripes.

SunnyFog · 08/07/2023 19:17

FourTeaFallOut · 08/07/2023 17:35

I won't be going to church, for a start. Whenever anybody describes someone as a Nazi, I need to know exactly how they are using that word.
I am less fussy about where people are saying things and more interested in what they are saying.

Basically, I've had my arse handed to me for lazily leaning to the left without interrogating the landscape better. If it weren't for the I am Spartacus thread however many years ago now, it could have been years more before I looked up from the daily grind to see the new order.

What was the I am Spartacus thread? I'm intrigued.
I'm interested to know, itrw, do friends, colleagues, call you Nazi to your face? Is the discourse different online?
Remember in the early days of online forums, how rude posters seemed? I'm convinced that carried back into real world interactions but not sure if that is just my perception.

Timefortea4 · 08/07/2023 19:21

How easily older women, who know how significant their biology has been on their life experience, and who, crucially, understand safeguarding and want to protect children, can be demonised and dismissed.

And how easily young women can be convinced to disregard their own interests and to believe that men with beards are the real victims that need prioritising above all else.

And how many men mean us harm. So many men. I sometimes wish I could unlearn that one.

Backstreets · 08/07/2023 19:31

The left hate women as much as the right does, but in a terrifying “soft power” way
Children don’t matter anymore apparently
The worst blokes in the world do though 🤗 and their pronouns must be respected even if they literally kill and rape
People will deny reality out of self preservation
How they create a false phallus 😱
What a youth movement with no interest in creating art looks like (beyond filthy anime fan art I suppose. But I’m thinking primarily of music)
My old alternative comedy hero Stewart Lee is a cock 😭
And Brendan O’Neill’s brand of contrarianism is actually vital in the defence of free speech
Lesbians can’t have anything to themselves

PriOn1 · 08/07/2023 19:31

I’ve learned how easily a lot of rights and things I thought were important and stable within our society can be undermined by a small number of people with an understanding of hostile takeover techniques.

I’ve learned that Germaine Greer’s statement that “women fail to understand how much men hate them” is much more accurate than I wanted it to be. Lots of men despise women and fewer of them are hiding it as it becomes socially more acceptable.

And I’ve learned a great deal more about prison statistics and just how different male and female criminal patterns are.

Roste · 08/07/2023 20:00

I’ve learnt that too many people are so desperate to be seen as better than others that they’ll spout any old tripe and blindly follow any cult that tells them they’re aligned with the chosen ones.

KohlaParasaurus · 08/07/2023 20:11

The Labour Party, for which I've always voted, is no friend to women, and nor is The Guardian, of which I am an ex-subscriber.
Some of the nicest men in my social circle believe they are entitled to tell women to be kind, shove over and let self-identified males into their spaces. I have trusted some of these people and I am horrified to discover what was lurking under the surface.
How a parent can become unrecognisable from the person they were before when one of their children identifies as transgender. And, conversely, how a parent's world can come apart when one of their children identifies as transgender and invalidates everything their parent believed about the childhood they had.
I am not "different from other women" because some of my roles in life have been gender-nonconforming. I'm just an ordinary woman who has done a few non-stereotypical things.

Froodwithatowel · 08/07/2023 20:23

That a political movement can rise like this by the conscienceless and moral-free exploiting people's trust, good will and basic good intentions, and that many and multiple agendas are being met inside the whole. And by people being useful idiots who fall easily to marketing and patter, and don't engage their brains.

That quite a lot of humans apparently really like a bit of religious zealotry and aren't that bothered what the religion happens to be if it lets them do the behaviours involved.

That as a society we are in a mess of sentimentalism, individualism, fantastic entitlement and selfishness, a belief that very wobbly boundaries are okay, I suppose, I dunno, (unless someone says no in a way that would require self denial, boundaries galore on that) and a lot of very bored young people with too much time on their hands, no sense of belonging or self, lacking for a healthy sense of community, in a time in history when the most effective way to get attention and celebration is to be very unhealthy and dependent, and not enough reality so that they are hooked on high emotional input and drama, whether being those in crisis or the rescuers of those in crisis. And I'm not sure how we come out of that.

And that the left are completely fucked, they are batshit insane and with a lot of beliefs that historically lead to absolute disasters, and they're all either too thick to see it or don't care as the gravy train currently works for them and it won't be them who suffer when it all falls apart, which as a naturally centre left voter is really bloody depressing.

Oh and that women were really bloody kidding themselves that they'd achieved anything much since suffrage.

It's been a grim few years.

FourTeaFallOut · 08/07/2023 20:24

The I am Spartacus threads started when posters were being kicked off the site all over the place for saying that men cannot become women. So a thread was stated, I am Spartacus, and poster after poster declared that men could not become women so that it became unfeasible to ban all the contributors.

But I had only used MN for the parenting and Christmas boards and it was just this thread coming up again and again that caught my attention.

I've had a quick Google and it was back in 2016.

FourTeaFallOut · 08/07/2023 20:26

Oh, and nobody is calling me a Nazi 😁 I just mean all the warding off of any writer/thinker who isn't toeing the line and becomes increasingly vilified until they are declared eventually and inevitably labelled a Nazi.