Found conference discussion uncomfortable "Pale Male and Stale"

[KatherineSwynford1403]

I was at a conference yesterday - overarching theme inclusivity (in my profession)- a guy stood up to do a (otherwise very engaging) presentation and put himself in this (IMO ridiculous) category. He's 54, doesn't look it, very good at his job, very forward thinking, has a great YouTube channel, makes a massive difference. Why then does this man feel he has to pretend he's obsolete?

I can see that meant-to-be-smart-and-catchy description thrown at say a group of university older 'boffins' or politicians but that has massively changed (though don't forget the ban the boffin campaign) but to do this as a very relevant and professional man is not helpful. I don't think.

Probably an attempt at charming self depreciation- obviously doesn't mean it or he wouldn't be there.

All it means is older, white male. It's a stupid name that has caught on because people can't resist a rhyme - yummy mummies and all that shite. But it does clumsily encapsulate who holds power in society.

Combine that with the UK's absolute cultural hatred of anyone who dares acknowledge they are in any way a success or good at what they do, and you get people choosing to publicly self-deprecate to indicate they're alright, really....

He should have gone further, describing himself as a hind leg of pork, brine-soaked, perhaps smoked.

I really cant stand this trend for putting put downs on certain groups in order to create some sort of impression of equality or 'inclusivity'.

You dont have to denigrate one group in order to promote another group(s) but this is what seems to have happened over the past 10-20 years in respect of a lot of areas.

I'm with you.

It's so incredibly condescending.

There are a lot of nice people who have been made to feel guilty about doing well at things. They try and mitigate their collective guilt by acknowledging it. Like on the terrible modern version of Fr. Brown, confession is all that can save them. Not that they will be absolved of being middle aged white men.

Yep, inclusivity should be…… inclusive. Plus, discriminating against young white straight males is not an appropriate response to historical discrimination against other groups

Well, exactly.

You can't tell how 'privileged' someone is by looking at them and hearing them speak. It's so bloody reductive.

He was getting his defence in first.

Not having a go at you, but “doesn’t look 54” is not a reason why “pale, male and stale” shouldn’t be applied to him. If he were 54, but looked 64, that wouldn’t somehow make it ok to use that phrase about him.

My view is: applying that phrase to individuals should be avoided.

I can see that some people might feel it’s ok to use it as (lazy) shorthand - eg a local authority where all the councillors are already, white and over 75. However it shouldn’t be used as criticism of those individuals; any discussion about the lack of representativeness of such an organisation council should focus on what it is about that organisation’s approach which makes it easier / more comfortable for a particular demographic to volunteer and what can be done to make it easier for other groups.

I appreciate he was using it against himself, and you didn’t come up with the phrase.

Should have been “all male, white and over 75”, don’t know why that auto corrected to “already”.

It's just another way for men use DARVO to reclaim their power and make people listen to them again.

Men who say "but what do I know, I'm just a straight white male" are using the fact their privileged position is often used (rightly or wrongly) to silence them as a way to undercut others' purported victimhood and claim back the seat at the table they feel entitled to.

We are supposed to feel sorry for them because they're constantly being told they're obsolete and privileged.

So using these kinds of phrases (1) encourage us to feel sorry for them and see them as the victims (2) indicates that they're sensitive self-aware types who are checking their own privilege and are therefore deserving of respect and 'not like other men' (3) prevents other people from highlighting how their privilege affects their perspective as they've already acknowledged it, and (4) invokes traditional gender stereotypes to remind us that they are in fact a straight white male and should therefore be listened to.

It's a clever technique to elbow their way back into the conversation and it often works wonderfully, but it's also very shitty and shows a lack of self-awareness as to how it comes across to women. I often interpret it as "behold, ladies, a man has arrived" as they are drawing attention to the fact they're a man - it doesn't matter that it's in a self-deprecating way - they're still pointing out that they're a man like it matters when they're talking.