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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My workplace is captured

15 replies

KenIsAnAccessory · 06/07/2023 20:10

Attended an organization wide meeting today- all speakers had their pronouns on screen when introduced. There was some talk around rolling out training to explain to us all how easily our words can offend and upset colleagues...not explicit yet what it will cover. Does anyone have any tips how best to respond to 'training' / being asked pronouns etc?

Surprised it's taken this long actually as it's a big corporate who pride themselves on ED&I.

I was heartened though to see a male colleague walking round later with a 'adult human male' t shirt on though.

OP posts:
Toseland · 06/07/2023 20:33

Mine too. I ignore them.

LonginesPrime · 06/07/2023 20:33

Read up on the Sex Matters website, and get clear on how your right to hold and express gender critical views is protected under the Equality Act 2010. I would read the Forstater judgment, but if you don't have time, I'm sure the Sex Matters website and other places will break it down.

And the Arts Council England case from the other day is a helpful example of a workplace situation that went awry too. The law is on your side.

You may well have to educate your managers/colleagues on the fact that gender critical views are protected under the Equality Act, and that while they may be concerned with offending trans people, they should also be concerned about offending gender critical people if anyone tries to tell you your questions are transphobic or bigoted.

Obviously if you do get any negative reactions, write everything down with dates, times, witnesses, etc in case you need it later.

On pronouns, I would just say "I'm not comfortable doing that", and leave it at that. I can't imagine they'll push it, but if they do, I would say "so, to confirm, are you saying I must disclose my gender identity to you?". Hopefully they'll back down at that point if they've had the inclusion training. Again if they are really clueless and continue to push it, ask them to clarify their request over email so you can consider it properly.

Toseland · 06/07/2023 20:38

I'm thinking of sending my female CEO a book - maybe Helen Joyce's - anonymously.

KiteofUncertainty · 06/07/2023 20:41

Great advice from@LonginesPrime , @KenIsAnAccessory

Personally, though, I would ask if they were insisting that I claim a gender identity, in contravention of my beliefs, etc. If you talk about "disclosing" a gender identity you're accepting in principle that you have one.

EarringsandLipstick · 06/07/2023 20:45

I wouldn't do any of the above - well bar the first one. Ignore. No pronouns. No training.

EarthSight · 06/07/2023 20:58

Yes - just say a bright, smiley 'no thank you'. If they push it, just nod your head and don't say anything. The awkward silence will make them move on. If you have to say anything, say 'You have the right to disclose your pronouns, but I also have the right to say 'no thank you'.

If on screen - just ignore. The majority of people have them in emails in my workplace. I haven't done this and haven't been asked about it once.

Don't resist the training - just call in sick. If it's an in-person session and not some kind of digital training, then they're unlikely to organise that training sessions again for just you or other colleagues who were absent. They'd have to pay more for it and much of this is ticking boxes.

I was heartened though to see a male colleague walking round later with a 'adult human male' t shirt on though

Wow - that's brave!

LonginesPrime · 07/07/2023 10:33

Yes, good point KiteofUncertainty - you could ask if they're asking you to declare a gender identity to step outside of the language from the ideology and avoid having to buy into the idea that you actually have one.

LonginesPrime · 07/07/2023 10:37

I wouldn't quote the Yogyakarta principles as they aren't enshrined in law AFAIK and they also say that gender identity should take precedence over biological sex!

But OP has the right to privacy under Article 8 of the ECHR via the Human Rights Act in England and Wales (and probably similar in the rest of the UK, I assume?).

Thelnebriati · 07/07/2023 11:27

There are lots of reasons not to do it and they are all useful - which approach you use might depend on why they introduced them in the first place.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 07/07/2023 11:29

Thankfully other than optional “LGBTQ+ awareness” training and a couple of people opting to add pronouns this shit has passed my work by so far. I’d just say “no thanks” about the pronouns and leave it there and otherwise keep my mouth shut. Kudos to your colleague, brave man!

Kissedbyfire1 · 07/07/2023 13:25

LonginesPrime · 07/07/2023 10:37

I wouldn't quote the Yogyakarta principles as they aren't enshrined in law AFAIK and they also say that gender identity should take precedence over biological sex!

But OP has the right to privacy under Article 8 of the ECHR via the Human Rights Act in England and Wales (and probably similar in the rest of the UK, I assume?).

The point about Principle 6 is that it warns against causing people to out themselves by the enforcement of pronouns. I used it successfully in my NHS organisation.

nebulae · 07/07/2023 13:34

There was none of this pronoun nonsense at my previous job but my current workplace seems to have been captured unfortunately. In a recent meeting we were encouraged to discuss pronouns with our partners, to make sure we're not inadvertently offending them 🙄. After 20+ years I think I know what his bloody pronouns are!

Leafstamp · 07/07/2023 13:38

If you're brave you can ask how the company is ensuring it is not discriminating against those with gender critical beliefs. Perhaps you have team member who has these beliefs? Wink

Regarding pronouns, there have been some previous threads, such as :

Best responses for being asked for pronouns in person | Mumsnet

I’m going to a residential training course (not UK) and I suspect they will ask us for pronouns when we introduce ourselves on day one. (I’ve been to...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4263273-Best-responses-for-being-asked-for-pronouns-in-person

Backstreets · 07/07/2023 14:04

Adult Human Male guy sounds fit and smart

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