Master bedroom

[Blackcatsalwaysrock]

I am very pleased with myself - Ive just corrected a valuer (putting house on the market so need valuations) who, walking into our bedroom said “ah, master bedroom”. No, it isn’t, I said ,it’s the principal bedroom!!! I’m surprised this language is still used!

That's an interesting point, but we are definitely a superstitious society! Watch how many people will walk in the road to avoid going under a ladder, even if there's no one up it.
The old masters thing is separate though, I think - it's to acknowledge that there were talented women painters too.

but it is, as are all the other outdated sexist terms that people still use.

Don't you take pride in your workmanship? (Is that a sexist term? 🤔 ) Gah

Very funny. Most people would avoid sexist language and use 'work'. It's not hard.

The term master bedroom had its origins in the 1920s in the US and it referred to the bedroom of the 'master'; the head of the household. I refuse to use it for its sexist connotations and use main for preference.

But ‘work’ and ‘workmanship’ don’t mean the same thing. Work as a noun is just the product or process of the verb ‘to work’. There is no value judgement in it, it needs an adjective to qualify it : good, bad, shoddy, painstaking etc….

Workmanship implies some level of skill and finish, usually when unqualified signifying a degree of positive achievement. Are you going to delete ‘masterpiece’ as well? What will replace it?

Surely by deleting words and terminology we impoverish the language.

But ‘work’ and ‘workmanship’ don’t mean the same thing. Work as a noun is just the product or process of the verb ‘to work’. There is no value judgement in it, it needs an adjective to qualify it : good, bad, shoddy, painstaking etc….

Language changes and I am happy for it to do so if it decenters 'man' as the norm.

'Takes pride in excellent work' is a fine phrase.

My god, I have a masters degree and batchelors degree. I say plantation shutters and know old painters as the old masters. I would say master bedroom as well.

And so do most people in real life.

Just shoot me.

Work and workmanship are not the same thing. Like work and handiwork are not the same thing.

What about penmanship? Penpersonship?

I can't get my unisex briefs in a twist about this, I really can't.

I worked for a holiday home rental company on their website - a year or so they started to list it as the 'main bedroom'. Quite rightly.

As a total aside I quite like the term 'Jack and Jill' bathroom - for a a bathroom with doors to two bedrooms. Much more common in the US

What about penmanship? Penpersonship?

Handwriting?

I can't get my unisex briefs in a twist about this, I really can't.

Well after we win the TRA war on women do feel free to revert to ordinary patriarchal sexism and make fun of women who do cast a wider lens.

The war on women goes well beyond the scope of TRAs, they are the icing on a very large cake. I see preoccupation with this kind of minor historic language as a bit of a distraction from the major language infractions around the use of woman, mother etc. Those are things I can get very worked up about.

Seems pretty heteronormative on the face of it.

Though Jack and Jill are usually understood as siblings, so maybe that falls under some sort of queer label after all?

Just because the language has a connection to slavery, doesn't make it "racist" to use in a completely different context.

Is there actually anything wrong with describing an inanimate object as a 'master' or 'slave', depending on its function? Surely it's human slavery that we want to completely eradicate and not 'honour'; but who cares if one computer server - a bunch of metal and microchips - is designated the master and another as the slave?

This isn't where 'master bedroom' comes from but I do think there is a case for removing such terminology out of respect for the descendants of slavery and to de-normalise the concept.

Re all the house/new build stuff, I ALWAYS look at the actual measurements. I know how big some of the rooms are in our house (old, draughty), and a lot of room sizes in new builds have me 😯

I'll stick with having a Master's. It reminds me how lucky I am that I was born in an era when women can get an education. The present is sexist, but the past was moreso, and I don't want to forget that.

In computing, I'm assuming that the language is indeed linked to slavery.

I think we can keep the concept of master/slave, or an analogy of it, and yet agree that slavery was morally wrong.

Good point, I don't think I'd want a spinster of science degree and to make it sex neutral it would need to be 'people of low rank in the feudal hierarchy degree' which doesnt exactly roll off the tongue.

Bugger that was supposed to have ediths post attached!

If we have to remove the master/slave concept from BDSM out of racial sensitivity or whatever, this is going to irritate the gay community. (They aren't the only folks into it, yes, sure.)

and that is lovely for you.
Those of us who would prefer to do away with outdated everyday sexism have other ideas.

I would say "don't you have pride in the work you have produced" for example. "look at the skills involved in producing that inlaid table"

What about single sex families. Do they have a mistress bedroom? (I guess not)

As we grow and understand how language affects us, we drop the harmful (even in very minor ways) and embrace the new.

Otherwise we'd still have a lot fewer female police offers than we ought to have. (for example)

I think we can keep the concept of master/slave, or an analogy of it, and yet agree that slavery was morally wrong.

I'm not going to make assumptions about your background or skin colour but I'm more than happy to stand with anyone in the black community who disagrees with you - and I am sure there are many.

I would say "don't you have pride in the work you have produced" for example. "look at the skills involved in producing that inlaid table"

And this probably took less time to think up than the sexist examples offered earlier - most of which were terribly try-hard.

I'm a 2nd waver so i have been paying attention to this since the 70s. Which does mean i've had practice.

But i don't find it particularly difficult to avoid using gendered language most of the time.

(am interested in the side-discussion about academic qualifications - they need renaming. But i never say "my bachelor's is this" or "my master's is that" and if ever i do it's degree and degree. It will be interesting to see how that develops. Women have been allowed to go to uni for such a short time in the grand scheme of things)

I mean. "manhole cover" - If i hear that word now it really stands out, because they've been drain covers for years (even if not strictly accurate). Police Officer, Firefighter, and so on and so forth.

also this.

We are (thank fuck) sensitive to things like this now. And if someone in a community that found something offensive (like the black community and "plantation" weddings, for eg) i definitely would try my very best to use non insulting and regressive language. Not only around them or within their earshot, but ever.

And a lot of people in a community - women - are now waking up to things like "master" bedroom (not one I'd thought of much so thanks to OP for bringing it up) and i would hope that everyone else would extend the same courtesy we do to other minority groups.

You put that so well, Brefugee.