Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

US Supreme Court sides with Christian graphic designer who refused to create same-sex wedding website

107 replies

SerendipityJane · 01/07/2023 09:20

Not sure quite what this means. None of us approves of forced speech, and yet ?

https://news.sky.com/story/us-supreme-court-sides-with-christian-graphic-designer-who-refused-to-create-same-sex-wedding-website-12912559

US Supreme Court sides with Christian graphic designer who refused to create same-sex wedding website

In a blow for LGBTQ campaigners, a landmark US Supreme Court ruling said Christian graphic designer, Lorie Smith, has the right to refuse to work with same-sex couples - but critics say it "opens the door to discrimination".

https://news.sky.com/story/us-supreme-court-sides-with-christian-graphic-designer-who-refused-to-create-same-sex-wedding-website-12912559#:~:text=The%20Supreme%20Court%20ruled%20in,requested%20by%20activist%20Gareth%20Lee.

OP posts:
Astsjakksmso · 05/07/2023 08:01

BCCoach · 05/07/2023 07:50

I’m unclear as to how getting rid of the Equalities Act would improve the situations you describe.

The point is that discrimination is complex. Even with legislation social attitudes etc prevail.
Of course legislation can stop 'some' things.e.g in my home country university admissions is by racial quota and landlords happily put up signs saying 'tenants of a certain race' only.

But the Equalities Act aside, 'social justice' activism seems to be about putting people into small groups and pitting them against each other. Race/religion is the biggest example. For LGBTQ++ , TRA's.

'Equalities and total non- discrimination' only work when there is a clear delineation of rights but the real world is messy.

Even for disabilities... even people with the same conditions can have diametrically opposite needs... Who do you prioritise?

It's not always clear.

BCCoach · 05/07/2023 08:28

Astsjakksmso · 05/07/2023 08:01

The point is that discrimination is complex. Even with legislation social attitudes etc prevail.
Of course legislation can stop 'some' things.e.g in my home country university admissions is by racial quota and landlords happily put up signs saying 'tenants of a certain race' only.

But the Equalities Act aside, 'social justice' activism seems to be about putting people into small groups and pitting them against each other. Race/religion is the biggest example. For LGBTQ++ , TRA's.

'Equalities and total non- discrimination' only work when there is a clear delineation of rights but the real world is messy.

Even for disabilities... even people with the same conditions can have diametrically opposite needs... Who do you prioritise?

It's not always clear.

This isn’t an argument against Equalities law. Currently it is illegal for a Hindu garment factory owner to refuse to hire a Muslim. Currently it is illegal for a Protestant taxi driver to refuse a pick up from a Catholic area. Currently it is required that service providers make reasonable adjustments for disabled service users.

These things do of course happen. But as a society we have decided they are wrong and therefore have laws in place to deter behaviour that we believe to be detrimental to people’s well-being. Yes the real world is messy and where the law comes up against the real world there are often lots of unforeseen consequences. This is why we have courts and an appeal system.

MrGHardy · 05/07/2023 08:43

Astsjakksmso · 05/07/2023 05:43

It's not about 'innateness'. It's about protected characteristics.
Both religion and race are protected characteristics. So in the same way that a Muslim outlet might refuse to make something with pork in it, they might refuse to make something with an LGBT message.

I'm not sure what other protected characteristic prohibits dealing with people of a different race, unless someone invents their own religion just for that. It probably already exists.

But that raises the question what should be considered a "protected characteristic". And it also changes when these "protected characteristics" change.

IWillNoLie · 05/07/2023 11:14

BCCoach · 05/07/2023 07:50

I’m unclear as to how getting rid of the Equalities Act would improve the situations you describe.

Equality Act

IWillNoLie · 05/07/2023 11:19

If they had refused to enter into an agreement in the first place, and tried a "freedom of expression" defence, it's a different question that the court would be looking at.

Human rights apply to individuals not councils or businesses.

BCCoach · 05/07/2023 11:37

MrGHardy · 05/07/2023 08:43

But that raises the question what should be considered a "protected characteristic". And it also changes when these "protected characteristics" change.

The 9 protected characteristics are defined in law. I don't think there's any appetite either in parliament or among the electorate for changing the list, except possibly for "gender reassignment" which is currently very poorly defined. The Supreme Court "gay cake" ruling makes it very clear that rights can be balanced.

MrGHardy · 05/07/2023 18:30

BCCoach · 05/07/2023 11:37

The 9 protected characteristics are defined in law. I don't think there's any appetite either in parliament or among the electorate for changing the list, except possibly for "gender reassignment" which is currently very poorly defined. The Supreme Court "gay cake" ruling makes it very clear that rights can be balanced.

But in the grand scheme of human history law is arbitrary and malleable. And what you call "balance" others may not see as a balance. E.g. can one balance trans rights and women's rights?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread