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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

First Direct and Natwest closing bank accounts for political reasons inc being gender critical

698 replies

Snorkers · 30/06/2023 15:47

Apprently First Direct have closed the account of the Wings over Scotland founder for his beliefs (He's Gender Critical), and Coutts, owned by Natwest, closed Nigel Farage's account.
Whatever you think of Nigel Farage he is entitled to a bank account.

This is really worrying.

I bank with First Direct. I am gender critical. Do I need to hide my beliefs to keep my bank account? Will tey stop me getting access to my money?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12249755/Nigel-Farage-claims-three-loved-ones-bank-accounts-closed-Brexit.html

Are banks shutting accounts of customers with anti-woke beliefs?

Mr Farage has not named the bank who plan to shut his personal and business accounts this summer, but is understood to be Coutts, the famous 327-year-old private bank whose clients include the Royal Family.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12249755/Nigel-Farage-claims-three-loved-ones-bank-accounts-closed-Brexit.html

OP posts:
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78
RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 14:35

DarkDayforMN · 01/07/2023 14:24

It is perfectly possible there is more than one issue at hand though.

yes, agreed! I’m grateful for the additional context about Farage; I’ve always resisted finding out much about him.

But I’m still really disturbed about the banks closing down the accounts of loud political dissident types without explanation. So I hope the thread can be deFaraged to some extent!

I hope that at some point there will be a 'reckoning' over Farage.

My suspicion has been for a while he's been left alone for a number of reasons - not least because if he had been investigated at the height of his influence there were potential national security issues. I also think there are others (no longer in government) who wouldn't be keen on the attention such a case would bring to themselves.

With Trump unraveling in the US and Farage finding it harder to gain political traction in the UK his star has waned (irony being that the main broadcaster's calculate air time based on voting % of the popular vote based on all elections - no longer being in the EU and not standing candidates at the last election Farage doesn't get that airtime anymore and pretty much only gets YouTube and GB News coverage). Johnson is more likely to fill this void in future too.

That to me, lends itself to Farage being 'less untouchable'.

There simply is too of a stinky trail that follows him to believe he's clean. I am starting to think it's just a matter of time before he gets caught out.

The one that really got me most was the memory loss over Julian Assange. That's simply implausible. Something isn't right. I hope at some point in my lifetime it will come to light.

SerendipityJane · 01/07/2023 14:46

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 14:35

I hope that at some point there will be a 'reckoning' over Farage.

My suspicion has been for a while he's been left alone for a number of reasons - not least because if he had been investigated at the height of his influence there were potential national security issues. I also think there are others (no longer in government) who wouldn't be keen on the attention such a case would bring to themselves.

With Trump unraveling in the US and Farage finding it harder to gain political traction in the UK his star has waned (irony being that the main broadcaster's calculate air time based on voting % of the popular vote based on all elections - no longer being in the EU and not standing candidates at the last election Farage doesn't get that airtime anymore and pretty much only gets YouTube and GB News coverage). Johnson is more likely to fill this void in future too.

That to me, lends itself to Farage being 'less untouchable'.

There simply is too of a stinky trail that follows him to believe he's clean. I am starting to think it's just a matter of time before he gets caught out.

The one that really got me most was the memory loss over Julian Assange. That's simply implausible. Something isn't right. I hope at some point in my lifetime it will come to light.

Obvious we don't know what Farage knows. And that is a very key issue here.

We have no idea what he's been up to. Illegal or not.

Only he - and his maker - know that.

Well worth bearing in mind in serious debate. (The same can be said of Trump, incidentally).

Once you hold that pedal down on the piano of discourse, Farages behaviour and pronouncements can be re-evaluated.

So what does he know that we don't ?

I haven't yet mentioned that rather than deal with this through the usual channels (that end up with the Ombudsman) Mr. Farage seems to want to conduct the entire process in the media. Which if he had "nothing to hide" is neither productive, nor usual.

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/07/2023 14:59

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 14:12

I'm quite happy for them to go after people who can't explain where their money came from. You know money launderers who have a habit of being criminals.

That's not the same as this quote being misused in a way to manipulate on a totally separate issue.

I think it's a gross misuse of the quote tbh.

I don't think it's a misuse of the quote at all. This thread wasn't originally about JUST Farage. There are a number of people other than Farage, both in the original article as well as referenced by pp who have also had their accounts closed. It's YOU who seems determined to justify it all by focusing on the one person who you feel deserves it.

MowingTheTerf · 01/07/2023 15:00

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 14:12

I'm quite happy for them to go after people who can't explain where their money came from. You know money launderers who have a habit of being criminals.

That's not the same as this quote being misused in a way to manipulate on a totally separate issue.

I think it's a gross misuse of the quote tbh.

No it's not a misuse of the quote, because I fully expect the same arguments to be used against feminist groups in the future. "We don't know where their funding came from" etc.

I've seen much the same arguments used for LGB Alliance with claims that they are funded by far-right groups/Russian money etc.

If we are so worried about Russian money and influence then how come the Conservative and Labour parties haven't had their bank accounts shut down due to money from Russian donors?

MowingTheTerf · 01/07/2023 15:06

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/07/2023 14:59

I don't think it's a misuse of the quote at all. This thread wasn't originally about JUST Farage. There are a number of people other than Farage, both in the original article as well as referenced by pp who have also had their accounts closed. It's YOU who seems determined to justify it all by focusing on the one person who you feel deserves it.

Exactly, it's the chipping away at everyone who has had their bank account closed.

They've gone for Farage, Wings Over Scotland, a vicar etc. All different people (although all are gender-critical).

The fact that the banks are unwilling to say why the accounts have been closed is very telling.

Essentially if you don't want something to happen to yourself, then you shouldn't wish it on your enemies.

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 15:09

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/07/2023 14:59

I don't think it's a misuse of the quote at all. This thread wasn't originally about JUST Farage. There are a number of people other than Farage, both in the original article as well as referenced by pp who have also had their accounts closed. It's YOU who seems determined to justify it all by focusing on the one person who you feel deserves it.

Well I disagree.

Strongly.

I think it's vile.

I am allowed this opinion.

LittleBearPad · 01/07/2023 15:09

MowingTheTerf · 01/07/2023 15:06

Exactly, it's the chipping away at everyone who has had their bank account closed.

They've gone for Farage, Wings Over Scotland, a vicar etc. All different people (although all are gender-critical).

The fact that the banks are unwilling to say why the accounts have been closed is very telling.

Essentially if you don't want something to happen to yourself, then you shouldn't wish it on your enemies.

If there are claims of money laundering the banks are not allowed to say anything. Tipping off is against the law.

There’s a lot of tinfoil hats on this thread

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/07/2023 15:13

MowingTheTerf · 01/07/2023 15:06

Exactly, it's the chipping away at everyone who has had their bank account closed.

They've gone for Farage, Wings Over Scotland, a vicar etc. All different people (although all are gender-critical).

The fact that the banks are unwilling to say why the accounts have been closed is very telling.

Essentially if you don't want something to happen to yourself, then you shouldn't wish it on your enemies.

And one of the banks - Yorkshire Bank, which is actually now Virgin Money - has even issued a statement admitted that yes, they do in fact close accounts of people who discriminate.

How is this "discrimination" determined? Because that could quite easily include anyone at all potentially who has a view different to that of whoever determines what is and isn't discrimination.

SerendipityJane · 01/07/2023 15:13

If we are so worried about Russian money and influence then how come the Conservative and Labour parties haven't had their bank accounts shut down due to money from Russian donors?

Because the Conservative party is in power ?

Has the Labour party any Russian donors ?

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 15:14

LittleBearPad · 01/07/2023 15:09

If there are claims of money laundering the banks are not allowed to say anything. Tipping off is against the law.

There’s a lot of tinfoil hats on this thread

Farage loves a good tin foiler.

I love them in the pub. Good afternoon entertainment.

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 15:15

SerendipityJane · 01/07/2023 15:13

If we are so worried about Russian money and influence then how come the Conservative and Labour parties haven't had their bank accounts shut down due to money from Russian donors?

Because the Conservative party is in power ?

Has the Labour party any Russian donors ?

I have views on certain former Tories who like to hang out with Russian too.

I think I have covered this based already in a previous message...

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/07/2023 15:16

LittleBearPad · 01/07/2023 15:09

If there are claims of money laundering the banks are not allowed to say anything. Tipping off is against the law.

There’s a lot of tinfoil hats on this thread

I'm sorry but accusing people of wearing tin foil hats is just a lazy attempt to close down discussion without addressing the points raised

Accusing someone of being a conspiracy theorist is no more of a robust counter argument than children in the playground saying "well you smell of wee".

MowingTheTerf · 01/07/2023 15:16

LittleBearPad · 01/07/2023 15:09

If there are claims of money laundering the banks are not allowed to say anything. Tipping off is against the law.

There’s a lot of tinfoil hats on this thread

So all of those listed are likely money launderers?

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 15:18

Most of Labours funding is via unions and individual members rather than big donors. There are some but on the whole it's a different model.

I personally think it's a problem with our system in the UK across all parties. It creates massive conflicts of interest.

Political parties in some EU countries do not have private donors to the same degree precisely to avoid this type of problem.

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 15:19

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/07/2023 15:16

I'm sorry but accusing people of wearing tin foil hats is just a lazy attempt to close down discussion without addressing the points raised

Accusing someone of being a conspiracy theorist is no more of a robust counter argument than children in the playground saying "well you smell of wee".

(Farage and) Banks v Cadwalla was fun.

LittleBearPad · 01/07/2023 15:41

MowingTheTerf · 01/07/2023 15:16

So all of those listed are likely money launderers?

Some will likely be.

Others will be thoroughly unpleasant people who abuse banking staff.

LittleBearPad · 01/07/2023 15:42

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/07/2023 15:16

I'm sorry but accusing people of wearing tin foil hats is just a lazy attempt to close down discussion without addressing the points raised

Accusing someone of being a conspiracy theorist is no more of a robust counter argument than children in the playground saying "well you smell of wee".

Closing down silly discussions is the right solution. Not everything is worth discussing.

SerendipityJane · 01/07/2023 15:54

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/07/2023 15:16

I'm sorry but accusing people of wearing tin foil hats is just a lazy attempt to close down discussion without addressing the points raised

Accusing someone of being a conspiracy theorist is no more of a robust counter argument than children in the playground saying "well you smell of wee".

Since we are discussing someone whose SOP for years was to evade scrutiny, accountability and responsibility with the clarion cry of

THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE

I remain unmoved.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 01/07/2023 15:57

LittleBearPad · 01/07/2023 15:41

Some will likely be.

Others will be thoroughly unpleasant people who abuse banking staff.

Does that include the feminist group that the Co-op Bank boasted about denying an account because they were single-sex? Co-op Bank were explicit that this was the reason: it is established fact.

It's interesting that those making accusations that this is all a conspiracy theory keep ignoring that example.

I'm perfectly happy to accept @RedToothBrush's suggestion that there are sound and lawful reasons for closing Farage's accounts. It does not follow from that other people have not had accounts closed or denied because of their beliefs.

IcakethereforeIam · 01/07/2023 15:58

Having read the thread, I'm open to the idea that Farage has had his accounts closed down for legitimate reasons. If it allows me to revel in his misfortune I'm all for it. But, aside from him, there does seem to be a problem with people and organisations being denied services for wrong think (for want of better words).

His woes seem to be shining a light on it, which is good. However, if nefarious dealings do turn up it may serve to discredit other people currently being lumped in with him. These people may genuinely have been treated unfairly.

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2023 16:20

LittleBearPad · 01/07/2023 15:41

Some will likely be.

Others will be thoroughly unpleasant people who abuse banking staff.

Unfortunately this is true.

If you have had your account closed for being genuinely abusive then you certainly aren't going to put that in a newspaper article.

I DO think there is room for banks to abuse this, but I also think there other cases will be for a reason.

Money laundering doesn't necessarily have to be international. It can be low level crime or tax avoidance. Gambling is one of the more common ways to do it so it's no surprise to hear of people having accounts closed for it. Again someone laundering through gambling might express a grievance but are unlikely to also add if they are laundering. Some people are dishonest or deliberately withhold information for their own reasons.

This is definitely going to be a class issue to an extent in terms of hearing from people who have fallen foul.

What's lacking is oversight and a right to appeal in some of these cases. The lack of transparency is the troubling bit. However cos of the proceeds of crime tip off rule - banks CANNOT be completely open either. Criminals can't be let off and allowed to continue. An independent body might be the way forward with that

But it's worth stating that even Farage WAS offered a very basic limited service. He didn't like this though.

So I don't think it's as straightforward as saying no banking at all. There will be restricted options out there which don't expose banks to risk / abuse of staff in the same way.

What Farage does best is exploit grievance politics though. Often in more disaffected demographics - like those who might do a cash in hand. And yes these are the people most vulnerable to bank abuses of power but are also most likely to perhaps have also been caught out for dodgy behaviour of some kind.

We need a balance here which doesn't impinge on police work and allow criminal behaviour to flourish.

The 'tin foil argument' is a black and white argument which doesn't allow for nuance and assumes that all people caught out must be victims of the same deliberate power down control and abuse of power on poor helpless individuals.

The reality of this situation is there are multiple reasons why a bank might legitimately ban someone in line with legal requirements, people are not wholly honest about their conduct and then a minority who have genuinely been hard done by. You need to determine just how big this last group are and work out ways in which that can be dealt with better.

Simply going 'well Farage is onto something' to the exclusion of this just plain ignorant. It doesn't acknowledge that banks HAVE to carry out checks for our financial security and physical security. If they didn't they'd be rightly attacked for failing to do so and enabling criminal activity.

Laundering is the result of crime and funds crime. Terrorism often is linked to laundering. If the banks are exposed to too much risk they may collapse which has a huge impact on the whole of society. Laundering is often done through family members accounts not just a named individual.

This is one of those scenarios where the banks doing NOTHING wouldn't be an alternative either. They can not - for legitimate reasons - often disclose the reason for a decision to ban a customer.

A very basic limited base account should be universally available but this really won't satisfy the lifestyle of those used to having significant gains through criminal activity. As well as maybe introducing an independent appeal system which retains the right to uphold the bank's decision without disclosing why.

nettie434 · 01/07/2023 17:59

Another good post to add to your ones earlier in the thread, redtoothbrush. Farage relies on exploiting grievances and his position is not the same as a trucker in Canada or a customer of the Yorkshire Building Society. He will revel in making people afraid that their donations to controversial but perfectly legal causes will be prevented or used to 'out' them. In the meantime, millions of £ from very dubious sources have made their way into the UK economy.

ResisterRex · 01/07/2023 18:19

Not Farage-related here's the head of financial tracking at HSBC. Patron of Mermaids:

twitter.com/wingsscotland/status/1675185927998566401?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Alyso · 01/07/2023 18:21

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

SerendipityJane · 01/07/2023 18:30

nettie434 · 01/07/2023 17:59

Another good post to add to your ones earlier in the thread, redtoothbrush. Farage relies on exploiting grievances and his position is not the same as a trucker in Canada or a customer of the Yorkshire Building Society. He will revel in making people afraid that their donations to controversial but perfectly legal causes will be prevented or used to 'out' them. In the meantime, millions of £ from very dubious sources have made their way into the UK economy.

We can only hope that like when he tried to smear the RNLI (because donations to them are suspicious and proof you are clearly anti-Suella) any organisations of which he disapproves see a spike in receipts.

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