First Direct and Natwest closing bank accounts for political reasons inc being gender critical

[Snorkers]

Apprently First Direct have closed the account of the Wings over Scotland founder for his beliefs (He's Gender Critical), and Coutts, owned by Natwest, closed Nigel Farage's account.
Whatever you think of Nigel Farage he is entitled to a bank account.

This is really worrying.

I bank with First Direct. I am gender critical. Do I need to hide my beliefs to keep my bank account? Will tey stop me getting access to my money?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12249755/Nigel-Farage-claims-three-loved-ones-bank-accounts-closed-Brexit.html

Bit they've disclosed the notes where they have ruled categorically that there is no evidence of Russian involvement. It's on page 1.

Banks are businesses. But they shouldn't be allowed to disenfranchise people from society because they don't agree with someone's legally held opinions.

If you're going to have criteria people need to meet, then all accounts,should be held to that criteria. Which we know they are clearly not.

They offered him a current account at Nat West but he can't operate without a business account. You should know that.

Seriously, you're just making random claims that if you bothered to read the dossier, you'd see Coutts had already decided weren't true.

I don't understand why anyone is entitled to a bank account, banks are businesses and it's up to them. Maybe they need to bring giro bank back for people who aren't wanted by a business.

Page 10 talks about him being qualifying of the account until the mortgage ends.
As per Russian Money - Banks will not say otherwise on a published report. That would tipping off which is a criminal offence.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk

The FCA will be prompted to look into it and it is without a doubt that they will find no wrongdoings.

Having worked in multiple banks for many many years I've lost count to the amounts of people who have been decline business bank account applications or have had personal accounts closed because of the promotion of hate speech . If you were to call your bank and make racist/xenophobic remarks you'd be guaranteed to see you bank account closed within 14 working days.

The same applies to private/wealth banking.

They are businesses that have the right to turn away people whose views do not align with their values.

What you can do is research the values of different financing institutions and choose one that's aligned to your values.

Good grief. Abusing the bank's staff is quite another issue to holding a different belief.
They are businesses that have the right to turn away people whose views do not align with their values.

What you can do is research the values of different financing institutions and choose one that's aligned to your values

You do realise they are covered by the Equality Act and can't discriminate.

Annual income does not equal assets, which can be accrued.

They've produced a very long document detailing all the things people who don't like NF said about him to justify closing his account. If it was lack of funds the dossier could have been a couple of lines, "when the mortgage term ends Mr Farge will no longer meet the qualifying criteria to bank with Coutts".

I've read it. It talks about how his views on climate change and NetZero are not in line with the bank's, there's no evidence of direct links to Russia but he does have what the bank terms strongly held and in many cases controversial views on things like climate and race which present a reputational risk, but that his views haven't incurred legal or regulatory censure. It also says that this is a finely balanced case and that he treats staff with courtesy and that he meets the EC (no idea what that is) criteria for commercial retention - but with the repayment of 'the debt' (mortgage, presumably) is likely to fall below the EC criteria in 24 months time. And as for money laundering, right at the bottom it says he's not a financial crime risk due to those alleged Russian links - you know, the ones for which Coutts couldn't find any evidence.

Scanning through it is quite an eye-opener. The Stasi would have been proud.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/875d130a-2746-11ee-8c1b-d5d52b458fbd?shareToken=e8e1534c3fc239816d66a27572524ed4
^Coutts changed the terms under which its clients could have
accounts closed to include discrimination after an equality report championed by Dame Alison Rose, the head of NatWest^
When challenged Coutts pointed to the racial discrimination commitment towards colleagues it had made in the interim report. But the client said: “The report commitment was a laudable one to protect staff — but it didn’t sound like they were going to pursue clients.”

This really is outrageous, what right do they have to police their customers private lives. Surely they should understand the limits with regard to actual first hand interactions and not go trawling through social media posts. This really has to stop.

But the EA only applies to businesses or institutions not individuals! Stasi here we are.

The truth is he had banked with them for decades and because of a technicality that he'd repaid the mortgage he technically failed the criteria despite being no poorer. There were ther Coutts clients in the same position whose accounts weren't closed.

That's right. Because ultimately Coutts can apply discretion for clients that meet their values. As they are a business and they have the right to do so.
The fact that anyone if willing to side with NF is sad and depressing.
So many important issues going on right now and yet again people decide to give that knobhead a platform.

Coutts did not close Farage's account because of his views. He's been dishonest about that and tried to play victim. He was offered a NatWest account in its place.

"financial expert Frances Coppola said: “The report makes it clear that the reason they closed his account was that Nigel paid off his mortgage and the house was released as a security, and that brought him below the criteria for an account at that bank, which we should remember is a specialist provider of private banking services to very rich people.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage-skewered-live-tv-30511216.amp

Funny they apologised to him then. He literally got a SAR which detailed the process by which his account was marked for closure.

It's desperately naive to believe "debanking" will only happen to the "right" people.

@Nina888 @FictionalCharacter The minutes of the bank’s Wealth Reputational Risk Committee, 17.11.22, referred to the “repetitional risk” NF presented because of his views. The Committee explicitly stated that it “did not think that continuing to bank NF was compatible with Coutts given his publicly-stated views that were at odds with our position as an inclusive organisation”.

They clearly record that it would be best to wait until his mortgage expired so that a decision “centred around inclusivity and Purpose” could be presented as a commercial decision.

It's depressingly infantile to think that anyone concerned about this is "siding with NF".

It's desperately naive to believe "debanking" will only happen to the "right" people.

I think it’s worse than naive - I think it’s worrying. I don’t like Owen Jones but I would be horrified if he was debanked because of his views.

Why do people think they can come on and push something which has been discussed at length and refuted.

As if Frances Coppola is some sort of authority on anything.

The fact that anyone if willing to side with NF is sad and depressing.

I find the fact that supposed adults aren't capable of thinking beyond simple tribal rhetoric like this in regards to such a serious issue deeply concerning.

This sort of thinking is why his account was closed in the first place. Today NF is the enemy.

Move the lines of intolerance juuussst a little bit more to the right or left and tomorrow it might be you. I hope there's nothing the least bit controversial on your SM accounts should you have any. Don't forget MN is social media too.

The people who think that being concerned about this equates to “siding with Nigel Farage” are presumably super big fans of Coutts. And by their own tortured logic they must also be super big fans of Pinochet and all of Coutt’s other customers.

It would be great if the billionaire bootlicker fascists would shut up and let rational adults discuss principles instead of personalities.

I agree with you but then if you believe in proper 'free speech', you believe in free speech for all, not just those who agree with you.
Young people now talk about 'free speech having consequences' i.e. you can get cancelled for wrong think, whereas I grew up with 'I may not agree with him but I defend his right to say it'.
I know which is healthier for democracy.

The reason people are entitled to a bank account is because have made it progressively more difficult for the average person to exist without bank account. These are bank initiatives to make it more convenient for the bank. If they could, they'd remove cash from circulation - they already tried to remove cheques.
If banks choose to have so much power over our lives, they should have matching responsibities. And the first of those is to facilitate everyone with a bank account so we can exist in the world they're shaping.

@FictionalCharacter

Coutts did not close Farage's account because of his views.

They did close it down because of his views. It says so on page 1 of the dossier. That they wanted to exit him because he didn't align with their views but they had concerns about bad publicity. So they decided in November 2022 to cover that decision by kicking him out after his mortgage ended in July2023, even though they had no idea what his financial status would be at that time.

The committee did not think continuing to bank NF was compatible with Coutts given his publicly stated views that were ar odd with our position as an inclusive organisation.

It was noted that NF currently has a mortgage with Coutts which is due to expire in July 2023 (....)so would suggest winding down the connection on that basis.

Furthermore, there are many people banking at Coutts that don't reach the required level in EC (economic contribution) but their accounts don't get closed. They have actually come forward to say so..

He was offered a NatWest account in its place.

Wrong. They offered him a NatWest account 10 minutes before he was going on air but up until that point they'd refused to do even that. He wasn't allowed to bank at any bank in the NatWest group.
And even then, they only offered him a basic current account. But he is self-employed and can't function without a business account and they refused to offer him one of those. Without it, he couldn't carry on making a living.

"financial expert Frances Coppola said: “The report makes it clear that the reason they closed his account was that Nigel paid off his mortgage and the house was released as a security, and that brought him below the criteria for an account at that bank, which we should remember is a specialist provider of private banking services to very rich people.”

Who cares what she says! She's so entwined with the banks. They all socialise together. I can read as well as her. And it's clear that they didn't want him to bank with them based on his values being different from theirs. The money issue was a pretext.

He's been dishonest about that and tried to play victim.

Everything Farage said was true. Its Coutts that were lying and we know that, not through leaks, but because its written in black and white

So all your talk of rationality is actually a cover for hating Farage. How depressingly predictable that you'd ignore concrete facts in black and white in order to make out he's lying because you don't like him.

What's sad and even more depressing is that not only are willing to twist the facts because you don't like him but you also put your dislike of Farage ahead of your support for civil rights.

Banks have developed their power to such an extent that none of us can live in this society without banks. If banks then have the power to decide who can bank with them based on whether they like them or not or agree with them or not, we're allowing a faceless group of unknown and unelected people decide how we're all to think if we want to be able to exist in the UK.

It's beyond undemocratic and yet as a member of the financial community you find it acceptable. Would you find it acceptable if those in receipts of benefits being paid into the banks had their accounts closed with no other bank prepared to take them on because bank committees across the sector decided receiving benefits was incompatible with their values and ethos? Would you be calling the benefit recipients a bunch of knobheads and say they should just suck it up because banks can do what they like?

I didn't think she "skewered" him. She sounded like a speak your weight machine. She kept parotting the line about his account not being commercially viable, completely ignoring the existence of the dossier and the fact the Bank had not treated other account holders whose accounts fell below the limit like this.

“If you were to call your bank and make racist/xenophobic remarks you'd be guaranteed to see you bank account closed within 14 working days.”

Well duh… but Farage didn’t do that, (as I know you’re very well aware). That would have been the perfect excuse to ditch him and we know they took the time to check, because their ‘dossier’ states he was unfailingly polite to bank staff.

I’m no Farage fan either, but you’re not helping your credibility with that kind of comment. Nor do I understand why you’ve been so keen to smear him on behalf of a bank that’s been willing to turn a blind eye on other ‘unsavoury’ clients in the past.

"financial expert Frances Coppola said:

Financial expert Frances Coppola clearly doesn't like Nigel Farage. When he appeared on Newsnight back in May this year she tweeted:

WHY IS NIGEL FARAGE ON # Newsnight???
WHY WAS HE EVEN ON NEWSNIGHT?

She has also tweeted: Bye-bye, Nige. Shut up, Nige. etc. and describes herself as a 'remoaner' in her Twitter profile.