Janice Turner Interview with Miriam Cates

[Igneococcus]

I don't see this shared yet. Not a great headline.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/38beb92a-1ffc-4370-a3db-0f58457afc07?shareToken=956961088b270d94282c7f20573e8568

Oh silly me. When I read 'Cultural marxism is an antisemitic term that should never be used.', I drew the inference that since the term is exclusively anti-semitic, anybody who uses it is anti-semitic and therefore MC is an anti-semite.

I’m pro-choice, but found Cates’ opinions on abortion perfectly acceptable. She acknowledged that we are NOT the US, that UK abortion rights were decreed by parliament not high court judges, that she has concerns over the legal 24-week legal limit as neonatal medicine improves. She certainly doesn’t come across as someone who thinks it should be banned altogether.

Agreed. She seems to be perfectly capable to balance her private beliefs with her public duties.

You can draw whatever inferences you like. I've no idea whether PP who posted that thinks Cates is an antisemite but she didn't call her one, which is what you said.

Agreed, and I'm a card carrying atheist.

Didn't Youssaf run a prayer meeting (all male, Muslim clerics, his sons, him) in the equivalent of Number Ten, within days of slating Forbes for weaponising her Christian beliefs?

The hypocrisy in this country over old school religion, and the new ones (holy is the non binary child before post-modernist saviour), is off the charts.

But no, Cates' evangelism will follow her around. Like Badenoch, and Thatcher before them, I think she's bulletproof.

Her hide will need to be thick, and her family back up watertight, to deal with the flak coming her way.

Right now, I have no particular political home anymore. It's down to Cates and Badenoch to present me with a glimmer.

The fact that she isn’t carefully second-guessing herself and wondering about all the possible connotations of what she says, makes her come across as trustworthy- like you can take what she says at face value. I’d rather she didn’t start talking overly self-censored, meaningless gobbledygook, like most politicians.

So phrases that raise my hackles are like “term that should never be used”.

Should should should.

Says who?

The hypocrisy in this country over old school religion, and the new ones (holy is the non binary child before post-modernist saviour), is off the charts.

Yes exactly - at least Cates acknowledges that her Christian beliefs are beliefs and not facts.

I'm not religious but I'm much more comfortable with people (of any religion) who understand that their religion is a religion than with gender ideologues who insist that their religion is an actual fact.

Because that's when things go awry, especially when those people see it as bigoted to suggest that other people might believe something different.

Yes RealityFan the new religions are gender ideology, the climate, etc. Christians "blaspheme" against their followers' beliefs so are hated. To be fair I think they probably dislike the other religions too (Hindu etc.) but don't want to be seen as racist (despite many poc being traditionally Christian, but then logic is never their strong point).

Well, that's a view. My view as I've posted above is that (assuming she didn't mean it in an antisemitic sense) using a phrase widely understood to refer to an antisemitic conspiracy theory is at best poor judgment, and so it has proved to be by the fact that her use of the phrase dominated the coverage of her speech and is still referenced in articles about her now weeks later. It detracts from her message (much of which I agree with) and makes it easier for people to dismiss her.

So phrases that raise my hackles are like “term that should never be used”.

Cool, take it up with the person who used that phrase.

Does using an antisemitic term mean a person is an antisemite? No, but it does show ignorance.

You think “the climate” is a religion? @Coveescapee

It’s one of the most science-backed evidence-based religions in the world, if so.

Yes should have been more specific, of course the climate has always changed, I was referring to JSO who I think behave like a religious cult but not really related to this conversation!

Not sure why you think my post relates to anyone other than the person I quoted?

I've no idea whether PP who posted that thinks Cates is an antisemite but she didn't call her one, which is (what I have inferred from) what you said.

I asked if it was an accusation.

I've been on a few weird voyages or journeys in my life. But the slam dunk strangest one is emerging into the cold clear air of reality as a teen in the 70s, after being a God fearing little boy, feeling pretty happy joining the new humanist, atheist group, proudly free speech, evidence searching, no more close minded belief structures, happy to always be arguing, in the company of like minded fellow truth seekers, putting aside childish attitudes and biases.

To find four decades later that this group I joined disappointingly wilted at the first pressure from a neo religion. Indeed, this group happy now to accommodate all the behaviours and traits they slated religious people for...sanctifying the Messiah/virgin birth (trans youth), having their gospels/ten commandments (protected speech and pronouns), even their heaven and hell (herd mentality purity spirals golden feelings of being social justice champions, and cancellation/no debate strictures, the modern day Spanish Inquisition).

I'll never do a 180 back to Christianity, but today I'll totally respect a Miriam Cates, Kemi Badenoch, Kate Forbes or Tim Faron, for being open and straightforward and unfiltered.

My humanist atheist group of choice of four decades. Too bad they moved from me. Now I'm open to Cates, an evangelical Christian, making me an offer.

Anyway. I refuse to partake in any more Emperor’s clothes bs. “Only the cleverest, most well informed, least bigoted Wikipedia memory-hole propagandists know the real meaning of this apt phrase to describe a cultural phenomenon, so out of hand that Elon Musk had to buy twitter at a loss to push back against it, and know to avoid the phrase altogether. In fact they don’t discuss it at all. So by all means, keep using the phrase if you want to seem >gasp!< ill-informed, ignorant and - even worse - bigoted!”.

Yes, my eyes did roll at that one.

I have a problem with the term cultural Marxism because it's inaccurate. Post modernism is if anything a reaction to Marxism. A rejection of marxism. But when she uses the term I know what she means so it's really not important.

What are we going to use instead?
Long march thru the professions?
Post modern(ism) revolution?
Critical thinking/critical race theory/critical gender theory?
Identity politics/identarian(ism) politics?

I see people are moving from woke.

I’ve seen pictures of male politicians leaning/perching on desks, though not generally in nice dresses and high heels. It’s more to look them relaxed and relatable to. There does seem to be a tendency for female politicians (and journalists like Kunessberg) to glam up, but their choice surely.

I’m opposed to religion in all its forms, having taken years to escape the damage done by my Catholic upbringing. But I recognise that others are allowed to have their own beliefs and use them to guide behaviour. People who claim to have no religion will sometimes attribute events to divine intervention, for example the near-miss of an accident. Cates is consistent and appears open and honest, credit to her for that. (I would never vote for her, though.)

Thinking about it more (and I appreciate this isn't the point of the thread) I realise it's the feet being off the ground that irks me.

I suppose I can imagine a similar pose for a man, but he would more likely be standing, leaning back against the desk, perhaps with arms folded in an "I'm relaxed but also strong" pose. Whereas with women it's often fully sat on the desk, legs dangling. Seems somehow infantilising, like a toddler on a big stool.

(Note I'm criticising the journalism that feels the need for this kind of thing, not MC herself, who can wear whatever/stand however she likes.)