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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Yet more insanity from Academia

98 replies

Imnobody4 · 28/06/2023 00:01

Sally Hines has a hand in this. Why should pregnant transmen have to stop testosterone?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667321523000811

Medical uncertainty and reproduction of the “normal”: Decision-making around testosterone therapy in transgender1 pregnancy

Some extracts:

But what happens when medical science doesn’t yet have all the answers about how patient behaviors may relate to health outcomes for both the pregnant person and the fetus—particularly when they may create potentially-divergent health outcomes for the pregnant person and fetus? How do patients and providers understand and weigh relative health risks and benefits as they formulate, dispense, or work to interpret and follow medical advice at this complicated intersection? How might assessment of health risks, and concomitant medical advice for behavioral change, reflect historical and ongoing social practices for creating “ideal” and normative bodies and people?

We find that the medical science around the potential effects of gestational parent testosterone therapy on fetal development in-utero or infant secondary exposure during the postpartum period (e.g., via chestfeeding/breastfeeding) remains nascent at best (Oberhelman-Eaton et al., 2021). Previous research repeatedly demonstrates how ambiguity and uncertainty is associated with authority-(re)establishing practices that may either intentionally or inadvertently involve stigma, discrimination, and poor care (Doan & Grace, 2022; Freeman, 2015; Poteat et al., 2013; shuster, 2019, 2021) and gendered precautionary practices that work toward avoiding potential risk through protecting embryos, fetuses, children, and families above all else (MacKendrick, 2018; Waggoner, 2017).

These precautionary and expertise/authority-(re)establishing approaches had the result of shoring up social constructions around binary conceptualizations of sex and sex hormones and was driven, in their explanations, by a focus on attempting to (re)produce normative bodies and people.

The logics guiding current medical advice around precautionary testosterone cessation in pregnancy involve potentially troubling assessments of the sorts of risks testosterone exposure in the prenatal and postpartum environments may pose for later child and adult development: namely, potentially heightened likelihoods of autism, obesity, intersex conditions, being lesbian and/or trans. In this way, precautionary practices of protecting the offspring of trans people become, paradoxically, a method of social control through safeguarding against reproduction of some of the very same characteristics held by some trans parents themselves. It also raises the specter of panoptics of the womb and epistemic injustice as it simultaneously reflects elevation of the epistemic authority of medical professionals and erosion of the epistemic privilege of trans gestational parents (Freeman, 2015).

This work aims to make room for further consideration of testosterone therapy during pregnancy for trans people, with a call to more fully consider their mental and physical health alongside predominant precautionary approaches for safeguarding the normativity of their offspring. Doing so attends not only to the social control functions of working to prevent non-normative bodies and people, and the artificial binarization of sex and gender in medicine and society, but also that between mental and physical health as it insists upon increased attention to the mental health concerns and well-being experienced by trans people before, during, and after pregnancy.

OP posts:
Codlingmoths · 28/06/2023 00:03

Oh fuck no. If their mental health requires them to be on testosterone then it is incompatible with pregnancy! Make a choice, that’s how life works.

mirax · 28/06/2023 00:25

The lunacy and lack of logic in that paper leaves me speechless.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 28/06/2023 00:26

These precautionary and expertise/authority-(re)establishing approaches had the result of shoring up social constructions around binary conceptualizations of sex and sex hormones and was driven, in their explanations, by a focus on attempting to (re)produce normative bodies and people.

Or* perhaps, if we remove the word salad and the 'I'm being oppressed' lens, it's not gendered precautionary practicesas a method not social control at all - but normal precautionary practices applied to all* drugs during pregnancy and breastfeeding.

A friend of mine has several conditions that require lifelong medication. When she wanted to get pregnant she and her doctors spent enormous amounts of time and effort minimising doses, swapping therapies and discussing the relative risks and benefits of staying off various meds so she could breastfeed or going straight to formula so she could get back on one of the important ones immediately after giving birth. Women are routinely told not to take antihistamines, painkillers or antibiotics for the duration.

Hoardasurass · 28/06/2023 00:30

Not meaning to diminish the risk to the fetus, but wouldn't there be an increased risk to the mother's life due to taking testosterone during pregnancy. By that I'm wondering if the atrophy of the womb and vigina that we know is caused by the testosterone could worsen during the pregnancy and with the additional stress put on them by being pregnant and delicate delivering a child vaginally increase the risk of serious or life threatening complications to the mother compared to stopping it for the pregnancy.

Lightningstrikess · 28/06/2023 00:32

@Hoardasurass you would think so. I remember being advised not to take panadol during pregnancy if I could avoid it... But as we are seeing time & time again they don't give a flying fuck about the children in this horrific expiriment.

Hoardasurass · 28/06/2023 00:35

Ffs don't know what happened there but it should say, Going on to deliver not delicate deliver.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/06/2023 00:46

the artificial binarization of sex and gender in medicine

Gender, yes. There's absolutely nothing artificial about the sex binary.
FFS.

It also raises the specter of panoptics of the womb and epistemic injustice as it simultaneously reflects elevation of the epistemic authority of medical professionals and erosion of the epistemic privilege of trans gestational parents

Does that mean anything in normal English?

Hoardasurass · 28/06/2023 00:48

I remremember having to stop all my migraine meds for weeks before both of my pregnancies and couldn't take them again until I'd finished breastfeeding as they didn't know what they might do to my dc (never having been tested on pregnant or breastfeeding women) but it would seem that we can treat women and babies as experimental ginipigs for gender validation purposes with this and chemically induced male chest excretions instead of mother's milk or even formula. What a world we live in

belleager · 28/06/2023 01:04

ErrolTheDragon · 28/06/2023 00:46

the artificial binarization of sex and gender in medicine

Gender, yes. There's absolutely nothing artificial about the sex binary.
FFS.

It also raises the specter of panoptics of the womb and epistemic injustice as it simultaneously reflects elevation of the epistemic authority of medical professionals and erosion of the epistemic privilege of trans gestational parents

Does that mean anything in normal English?

I would paraphrase as:

It is unjust to value doctors' knowledge about medical science over trans parents' knowledge of their own situation.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/06/2023 01:18

Now I wonder why they didn't put it so simply and clearly in the first place? Almost like they didn't want anyone to know what they meant (I'm sure there's a way to say that using the word 'epistemic'....)

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 28/06/2023 01:21

Does that mean anything in normal English?

Some sort of paranoia about wombs being spied on, plus it's unfair on non-experts to say that experts know stuff.

PriOn1 · 28/06/2023 03:55

testosterone therapy among these populations generally serves to reduce gender dysphoria, protect mental health, and provide a greater likelihood of being recognized by social peers in accordance with one’s gender

And “being recognized by social peers in accordance with one’s gender” is not completely incompatible with pregnancy?

This is one of those make it stop moments for me. Maybe there have always been insane academics pushing baby harming views, but I’ve never had them presented to me before and thus was able to live in blissful ignorance. These are twisted thoughts from twisted minds.

nettie434 · 28/06/2023 06:28

I've just read the whole article. Framed as a study comparing health professionals' and trans people's knowledge about the effects of testosterone on pregnancy and breast milk or and exploration of how trans men and their partners made decisions about becoming pregnant, it could have been very interesting and valuable.

However, as others have pointed out, it is written as if there were no existing knowledge about the impact of prescribed and over the counter medication on pregnancy, as if there were no existing protocols about the safety of medicines prescribed for women with epilepsy or MS or countless other long term conditions.

The flaw is not with the data collected. It's with the context and conclusions provided by the authors. I looked at the authors' names and I don't think they include an endocrinologist or pharmacologist. Shouldn't they have done this if they want to question clinical judgements?

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 28/06/2023 06:47

As a midwife reading stuff like this makes me want to weep.
determined to create a problem where there isn’t one.

Theyve inadvertently hit the nail on the head themselves - the advice is that they stop testosterone when pregnant. Nobody is forcing them to stop. They will be given all known information, ie; nobody knows for sure because it would be very unethical to do a large study and inject pregnant women with testosterone to see what happens (would probably need to use women not transmen as there aren’t enough pregnant transmen to make a valid study).

But that common sense suggests testosterone would not be a good idea as we do know that oestrogen and progesterone levels in pregnancy are finely balanced at different times and testosterone would likely impact on this.

nobody is forcing a transman to stop, and if they want to carry on and take the risk that’s up to them. I mean they can’t complain about the lack of research and then not help with the research really? So maybe this would be the ideal time for them to put their money where their mouth is and see what happens?

donquixotedelamancha · 28/06/2023 06:51

I enjoy the way they make incredibly bold medical claims..

testosterone therapy among these populations generally serves to reduce gender dysphoria, protect mental health, and provide a greater likelihood of being recognized by social peers in accordance with one’s gender (Lagos, 2019)

...then back them up with a single sociology journal as a source.

Science cosplay.

DSDaisy · 28/06/2023 07:01

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Withdrawn at poster's request

squillionth · 28/06/2023 07:07

So difficult to follow this!

SinnerBoy · 28/06/2023 07:13

In a nutshell, it seems to be: "She NEEDS her testosterone, fuck the baby."

They admitted that taking testosterone during pregnancy is almost certainly harmful to the baby. How have the authors not been struck off?

Women in the USA have been imprisoned for having a glass of wine, or a cigarette, whilst pregnant, so how is this allowed?

DSDaisy · 28/06/2023 07:16

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Withdrawn at poster's request

WarriorN · 28/06/2023 07:16

Fairly certain this paper will be ignored by medical professionals

WarriorN · 28/06/2023 07:17

She's committed an own goal however as it proves how un academic she is.

NotTerfNorCis · 28/06/2023 07:25

Ms Hines is daft as a brush. She thinks that before the Enlightenment, the female skeleton didn't exist.

https://twitter.com/DrBrooski/status/1672694842776866821?t=Oz9AIJ-KQF0PU96Ab_U7Vw&s=19

It's incredible that her job involves teaching others.

https://twitter.com/DrBrooski/status/1672694842776866821?s=19&t=Oz9AIJ-KQF0PU96Ab_U7Vw

EdithStourton · 28/06/2023 07:29

I've spent five or ten minutes trying to articulate a reply but I just can't.

I'm appalled.

DSDaisy · 28/06/2023 07:30

This reply has been withdrawn

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