Dating as a gender non conforming man

[Justme56]

My baffling journey dating as a gender non-conforming man | The Independent

I found this unusually interesting.

I saw this as well. I found it rather sad when he said he was neither male enough for men who are into men nor female enough for men who are into women, and I imagine many trans people of both sexes have similar experiences.

The part where he said that when he was more female presenting his boundaries were more likely to be pressured and overridden by other men than when he appeared more masculine was quite disturbing.

His perspective is really interesting, and I LOVE that he is confident and self-aware enough to both be who he is (a gay man) and wear the clothes, styles etc that he wants too. I really wish this were a more widely accepted position

i am not usually this nice but - I want to give him a big hug! He seems a sensitive guy. I hope he finds another bloke who appreciates him .

Yes, this man is doing the confident, subversive gender bending all the medicalised children believe they are doing. He’s cool.

I think he is an attention seeking twat to be quite honest.

It's interesting that none of his experiences of how men on dating apps treat him when they think he is a woman seem to have caused him to reflect at all on what that says about the treatment of women by men. It felt as if the article might have been heading towards a comment about that, but nope.

I read it slightly differently - especially when he wrote “it feels misogynistic, even though everyone involved is a man”. I felt he was absolutely trying to make a point about misogyny - towards women - but without presuming to know or comment on women’s experience.

Yes, he could have gone a little further to make his point clearer, but it’s much better that he left his point underexplored than if he’d mansplained misogyny.

I suspect that some of these men – such as the man who insisted on using she/her pronouns for me – do so to mask their own internalized homophobia. After all, as evidenced by his continued chatting with me, his attraction did not stop upon finding out I am male. He could not square that attraction to a man with his own self-perception, though, so he rejected that reality. If I am really a woman, he is still straight. Denying reality enables him to avoid confronting a more complicated truth about himself than perhaps he is ready or even willing to accept.

I think this bit explains a lot of the behaviour of some trans women and many of their 'allies'.

Eh? I thought that was the main point he was making.

Would that not be mysandry then as they are all men?

Misandry apologies.

Glad I read that, he seems like a genuinely nice bloke and I think his point about misogyny lands exactly where it should. Men do ride roughshod over women's boundaries in a way they don't do to other men. This man is in a relatively unique position in which to experience this firsthand.

A minor point, but when he said he was talking to someone on an app who kept using she/her for him, how in practice would that happen? Aren’t pronouns used more about the person rather than to them?

Having done some searching of how he looked pre weight gain given that the only difference is his weight gain and a frilly top I'm not sure what that says about men to be honest. How/why are they now reading him as female?

His front facing pictures read much more masculine than the side shots, which is fascinating. And the massive high bun he seems to like wearing his hair in is probably enough to confuse a lot of men!

They must be reading him as a transwoman it’s the only explanation

It may be the circles I move in*, but I know a fair number of men who wear their hair in a bun - some high on the back of their head, some lower down.

The term 'man bun' exists fof a reason.

*reenactors, metalheads, etc.

Yes, I know what a man bun is. Fair dos if you see lots of men with a big puffy bun right on the top of their heads. I would suggest that is still pretty untypical even in circles where man buns are ten a penny.

I don't usually like the way the term "presenting as female" is used since it gets mixed up with being female. But basically he is being read as presenting as a woman/female since he is wearing long hair, a frilly top all off which are more associated with women than men. Which in this day and age = transwoman which in turn = woman

Honestly if some long hair, shaped eyebrows and a dress are what make the difference no wonder we are having the issues we are having constantly getting told by men that no one can tell the difference. Obviously some men can't or don't want to!

He has got nice hair though!

I thought that was an interesting read and nice to see someone not taking themselves too seriously. I would class it as misogyny if a man treats someone worse because they think they're a woman. Unfortunately, this is the point transwomen make about suffering the same experiences as women.

Some interesting comments here. Any lesbians here who have switched between a more femme/butch or GNC style i.e no makeup, short hair masc clothes? I have known a few and guess what they said their dating experience with woman varied quite a bit if you flipped your style.

A whole bunch of humans are judgemental where gender style is concerned this isn't about just men, it is about people. Which is the problem. If you break gender sterotypes people get weird. The whole trans/corporate gender structure is an attempt to create a new gender system so we can get back to ostracising people who defy it more easily.

I wonder if in person there’s some body language that affects how people perceive him.

Unfortunately, this is the point transwomen make about suffering the same experiences as women.

I think they call it misogyny when women make it clear they don't see them as women. They claim that it's misogynistic to notice their masculine features or "police" their femininity and not accept their male bodies as female. So I'm not sure it is the same experience.

Interesting article. I am quite surprised he causes that much confusion, though!