BBC to bring the famous five to TV

[Dinopawus]

Just seen this in the Times.

For the love of Timmy, can the BBC please leave George as the Tom-boy she is?

Im not confident.

Famous Five go on a progressive adventure for new generation in TV adaptation

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25335ec2-1388-11ee-b768-bb6d328f2d92?shareToken=8042c7bc7e8225df45e0537407fb335a

Also this thread from 2015 on gender and biological preferences v social conditioning is quite interesting. The OP is trying to make the point (perhaps a bit clunkily) that there may be some biological basis for different behaviours in males and females and there is a lot of disagreement. I can remember being on one of these threads and how black and white people were. I think things have moved on now and there is a shift towards people saying it’s a mixture of nature v nurture. I suspect Helen Joyce is right when she says Trans activism has made people realise that biology is more important than previous feminist theories suggested.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/2405714-Feminism-but-is-there-some-truth-in-the-stereotype-of-gender-roles

There was a period in my life (as an adult) when to answer truthfully the last book I read it would have been ‘Each Peach, Pear, Plum’, ‘Peace at Last’, or ‘Goodnight Moon’

This is currently being filmed where I am on holiday. There's nothing to suggest George is trans, she looks like a very pretty young woman, dressed in dungarees. She is a person of colour.

@C00kp1ssBabtridge thanks for putting us out of our misery! Georgy sounds fab! Any other spoilers 🙏

Timmy is super cute and quite the professional 😂They seem to be filming Treasure Island at the moment

@C00kp1ssBabtridge you need to keep reporting back to us 😁 Sounds great, I'm very excited. My dd's love the Malloy Towers tv series!

Very good! 😂

Good point!

I can't remember ever being asked what the last book I read was.

I'd have thought Blyton, of all writers, was the definitive example of how stereotypical, 'gendered' roles are a social construct and a lot are extremely antiquated. The expectations for women and conditions of being a woman were far removed in the 1940s from what they are today. If gender is to such a degree nebulous, and its parameters shift and change with time, then it would seem this goes against essentialist concepts that it's somehow intricately tied up to our biology.

It's those stereotypical expectations George was railing against. The idea that she had to as good as pretend to be a boy to reject them was very telling about the kind of way her society operated.

Biology is, of course, separate and immutable. Women still have different bodies from men and are oppressed on account of their physical differences. Gender is the mechanism used to do this.

I think what was done with The Railway Children illustrates both the potential and the limitations of trying to make history in historically-very-white countries look more multicultural.

The Railway Children used a cast with people of various colors, and did not go for a color-blind approach; the film actually did take a realistic look at what it was like to be a black guy in the UK and US at that time, and by all accounts did a pretty good job of it. And it certainly can't be accused of lying about the past (which is the complain that several people, including me, have made about the "stick some random non-white people into a George Elliot production etc.") or pretending that people in 1940s Britain/America were race-blind post liberals.

But this approach is also limited in each nature. It makes The Railway Children into, to an extent "a film about racism."

That's not a bad thing in itself; there should be some "films about racism."

But do we want every costume production, or most costume productions, to end up having to be "about racism"? Are they all going to have to end up having a "Racism Issue" thing inserted into them, or else be considered unmakeable or unwatchable?

Because that's another issue which is causing some annoyance and frustration among viewers: the perceived sense that films and TV in the last decade or so have acquired a preachy feel, that they keep bringing in the same agendas again and again etc.

I do feel a bit puzzled by the "perceived scarcity" that seems to exist when it comes to non-white characters in children's TV and film. I have Netflix: if I open up to the Kids page, take a flick through, most of the productions have casts featuring children of different races, which for modern productions is exactly as it should be: this is not the 1980s, after all, and we've moved on massively since those days.

Is it really too much to suggest that we just allow 1940s (and earlier) Britain to be portrayed "roughly" how it actually was in those days, for the small number of productions that are actually set at this time? We're literally talking about the odd film or TV series that forms a small % of the total content that kids watch. Is watching the occasional film with an all-white caste honestly going to give the kids cooties?

My ds LOVES the famous five. I do not care what colour the children are, and he would love to see it, but if George is trans he will not be watching it. That would be an awful message about what girls are allowed to do and he doesn’t need exposing to that extremely limiting and misogynistic mindset.
anyway no reason to think it,
let’s see! 😁 at the posters saying uncle Quentin is the only one actually likely to be trans.

It's easy (and interesting) to pick upon and discuss there being no/very few non-white people in EB's books, but nobody ever seems to address the rampant classism. The fact that it's just assumed that all decent people have a cook, a housekeeper, a governess, a driver etc.; and far more seriously, the use of working-class people as a shorthand for shifty, untrustworthy, criminal sorts.

It's considered astonishing when one of their parents' rich, posh, educated types turns out to be up to illegal activity; but if there's a Cockney character in dowdy/blue-collar clothes and a flat cap, it's almost expected that they will be your culprit. And as for anybody in any way associated with the circus or the Gypsy communities...

let’s see! 😁 at the posters saying uncle Quentin is the only one actually likely to be trans.

<whispers> What will they do when they discover that Bill Smugs is a currently-closeted furry?!

There aren't loads and loads of diverse books as you say, particularly ones which are not based on the characters' colour. We need stories which are not necessarily about our ethnicity or struggle, thank you. You'd be surprised how difficult it is to get original stories out there which is why film and tv is a saturated with re-makes. Basically, the world has changed and you have to roll with it, we are a diverse nation and people of colour contribute a lot to the arts, music and culture and we need to be represented accordingly. Not just in front of the camera, but behind it too.

If not for the racism and divide of the 1950s and 60s we would indeed have been riding our bikes together through the forest or whatever and being greeted by the local community. We were invited here after the War to help build up Britain but were treated like crap! Couldn't even go to the churches on a Sunday! I know as I have heard stories from my gran, mum and aunts. (By the way there were a large black community here before Windrush).

These are real stories not make believe - the Fantastic Five, however are made up stories and therefore we need to extend our imagination to believe anything and that includes a lovely group of children; black, white and anything in between (you can have cousins of different ethnicities by the way).

Furthermore, it is being made for children, let their unspoiled minds enjoy the story. If we adults want nostalgia, the books are there to read.

The new series is being made by the BBC and so you can best believe it will be very diverse. My four children are all child actors and I hope they get the opportunity to cast for this (if it's not been cast already!).

Anyway, this thread reminds me of the saying "If you don't think representation matters, you're probably well represented".

xx

Anyway, this thread reminds me of the saying "If you don't think representation matters, you're probably well represented".

I thought it worked well for the Malory Towers adaptation. I also find nothing particularly nostalgic about Blyton's representation of ethnic minorities, or even people who were not from England. The xenophobia is very evident in her representation of the gormless French teachers, who are always the ones to be completely taken in by every insipid, predictable 'treek'. The (implicitly more sensible) English mistresses see through the high jinks immediately, and in typically po-faced style swiftly administer the appropriate punishments.

As for Americans, their girls grow up too quickly and it's down to the English girls to teach them that being a child, and concerning themselves less with their clothes, nails and the cinema, is the 'appropriate' model of behaviour. In other words, squash them into swift conformity, and extinguish any hint of individuality.

The worst portrayal of an American was that of the thieving Mr Henning in 'Five on Finniston Farm', not to mention his ghastly son, Junior.

It's not accidental that the very worst and most ruthless of Blyton's usually cardboard-cutout, Scooby Doo style villains was the murderous Jo Jo, a black 'servant'. It might be prudent to point out that the rest of the baddies were white, but this man is an unusually nasty piece of work for Blyton, and practically every other mention of him also makes mention of the colour of his skin. This character has been updated to omit these details in the later publication. I'm glad to see it: I don't necessarily discourage my DC from reading Blyton - although we do discuss the shortcomings of her worldview - but I would not want him reading naked prejudice like this.

(On a lighter note I am, however, cackling at the horrific yet infinitely entertaining image of Bill Smugs as a furry .....)

Absolutely agree that the racist, classist aspects should be done away with - but let's leave George as a happy girl who likes climbing trees and snubbing gender stereotypes without being trans.

OMG nooooo 😱! LEAVE GEORGE ALONE! Or I am never paying a TV licence again

No there wasn't a large black community then there wasn't even in the seventies when I grew up. Even now black people only make up 4% of population. Asian is over twice that and if anything is alot more underrepresented in films and TV. Rather than prise black people into white people's stories (which Enid Blyton is) I would like to see more of other ethnicities stories told.

C00kp1ssBabtridge

Whereabouts is it being filmed? Come on, you can tell us - it's not where you live!!

I just want Timmy to be played by a dog!

@IcakethereforeIam like this one? 😜 It is a collie!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10867479/amp/Japanese-man-wears-collie-dog-costume-reveals-none-friends-know-canine-alter-ego.html

Man who dresses as dog says friends don't know about canine alter ego

Well, apart from the one holding the ball to throw to him. And now, anybody in the world with an internet connection who stumbles on or is sent the story...

I just want Timmy to be played by a dog!

That's definitely something that would never, ever have crossed your mind to even question just a few years ago!

Unless they did it on the cheap and/or pantomime style - but it would still definitely be a person in a rubbish dog costume and not a person who actually thinks that they ARE a dog!

The BBC adaption of Mallory Towers was AWFUL. Unbearable viewing for me as a fan of the books. I have zero hope that a new tv version of Famous Five wont be dire.