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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans-position in "Misbehaviour" movie?

13 replies

BaronMunchausen · 25/06/2023 14:45

Did anyone see Misbehaviour on BBC2 last night? Towards the end when a crowd outside the courthouse greets the women, I spotted what appeared to be a man 'dressed as a woman' vigorously expressing support for the feminist cause.

It seems highly unlikely to have been 'man-dressed-as-woman-for-the-purpose-of-amusement' a la Monty Python and Dick Emery of the time, and more likely to be a 'trans woman' transposed from 2020 into 1970 to represent the full range of "women". Other things, like the intersectional critique of second wave feminism, seemed a wee bit anachronistic too?

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BaronMunchausen · 25/06/2023 14:53

Ah. Here we go.
I suppose it could be a male ally, um, dressing as a beauty queen to make a point??

Trans-position in "Misbehaviour" movie?
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funnelfan · 25/06/2023 15:36

Yes, I spotted that character too. All films absorb the context of the time they were made, so of course a trans character will appear in a modern film about women’s rights, no matter when it is set. Interesting that the character is clearly a man dressed as a woman - transsexuals in the early 1970s (as far as my memory goes, I was a child) tried very very hard to “pass” in wider society. Dressing like that character would be seen as a piss-take, eg during a student rag event.

BaronMunchausen · 25/06/2023 17:27

Yes, student rag is about right - and it would surely have been seen by one and all at the time as entirely inappropriate.

It reminded me of the way a "trans rights are human rights" placard was recently photoshopped into a 1983 gay rights march in Dublin.

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BaronMunchausen · 25/06/2023 17:36

...I can't agree that films have to absorb the context of the time they're filmed (or that our time definitively holds that males 'presenting' as female are integral to feminism). There was such attention to detail in so many other aspects of this film (including the fashion!) that it was a real shame to see apparent historical revisionism to match what the filmmakers held to be the 'correct' feminist ideology of their own time.

Trans-position in "Misbehaviour" movie?
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IwantToRetire · 25/06/2023 18:11

Sorry to disappoint but in the early 1970s there were some in or part of Women's Liberation who advocated transexuals as they were then known.

And also, hard to believe drag queens, although the drag queens of the 70s were more lily savage than some current drag queens.

There was a recent article about this, about how leftist feminist and gay liberation held joint protests against Mary Whitehouse.

More the politics of Oz magazine than say CP.

FlamingoCroquet · 25/06/2023 18:16

I haven't seen the film, but that photo looks like it's meant to be a bloke dressed as a beauty queen (with the sash saying 'mis used') to show his support for their cause. A transexual in the 70s wouldn't have had a beard, I don't think.

IwantToRetire · 25/06/2023 18:19

Sorry it wasn't a recent article it was a two part documentary about Mary Whitehouse - Banned! The Mary Whitehouse Story.

And this is an example of what one faction of WLM were involved in:

On 9 September 1971 the UK Gay Liberation Front (GLF) undertook an action to disrupt the launch of the Church-based morality campaign Nationwide Festival of Light at the Methodist Central Hall, Westminster.[1] A number of well-known British figures were involved in the disrupted rally, and the action involved the use of "radical drag" drawing on the Stonewall riots and subsequent GLF actions in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Gay_Liberation_Front_1971_Festival_of_Light_action

I dont know what "radical drag" is, as what's on the internet is contermporary explanations of it (ie heavily influenced by current TRA thought). I wonder if at one time it did have a political role and somehow along the way what was meant to be satired morphed into this is how it should be?!!

UK Gay Liberation Front 1971 Festival of Light action - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Gay_Liberation_Front_1971_Festival_of_Light_action

BaronMunchausen · 25/06/2023 19:08

FlamingoCroquet · 25/06/2023 18:16

I haven't seen the film, but that photo looks like it's meant to be a bloke dressed as a beauty queen (with the sash saying 'mis used') to show his support for their cause. A transexual in the 70s wouldn't have had a beard, I don't think.

Yes he's dressed as a beauty queen. As the feminist protesters were very careful not to target the contestants - and waited until they were offstage before launching the protest - it seems very unlikely that a male ally taking the piss out of them would have been met with approval.

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BaronMunchausen · 25/06/2023 19:16

Yes I'm still not sure from that what radical drag was - but I did find this bit interesting:

The philosophy underlying radical drag rejected the concepts of masculinity and femininity, which correlated to ideas of dominance and submission. The idea of men who are really women, or of 'real men' dissolves in this deconstruction.

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funnelfan · 25/06/2023 23:07

I can't agree that films have to absorb the context of the time they're filmed

@BaronMunchausen my perception isn’t that it’s an obligatory thing, more that it’s inevitable that it seeps in, even unconsciously. Period pieces are always viewed through the lens of current thinking . To me the gold standard is Mad Men and I think they did it very well and subtly - the scene that always comes to mind is the end of the picnic scene which for some reason it’s always as shocking as anything else in the whole series.

I agree that there seemed to be a high degree of attention paid to period detail in Misbehaviour so maybe they thought this split second shot right at the end could slip through as an unsubtle nod and wink to the message that “of course these days we’re even more enlightened on ‘women’s rights’.”

DemiColon · 25/06/2023 23:26

I don't know about this, but in general in the last five years I find television writing struggles not to be completely anachromistic.

Even when there is plenty of attention to detail in terms of costumes and such. Call the Midwife being a good example in its later series.

funnelfan · 26/06/2023 00:21

Oh yes, since they used up Jennifer Worths source material, the only character actions and attitudes/storylines that rang vaguely true are Lucille and Cyril, up to the point she went back to Jamaica without him. In the early series, the characters were obviously progressive on issues such as poverty, housing and education because those were the underlying causes of many of the problems of their patients. But they did a good job of showing the prevailing attitudes of the time. Now it seems to be Dr Turner has a cause of the week where he has remarkable insight and modern opinion. When in reality odd are that he would be paternalistic and “doctor knows best” - and so would his son Timothy when he qualified presumably in the early 70s.

The All Creatures Great and Small reboot is another one. Wonderful cast, location, sets etc. I thought they were going to move closer to the true story of Alf Wight but the story arcs and attitudes of the characters are 21st century. Baffling.

nettie434 · 26/06/2023 08:08

I enjoyed the film but I didn't notice that clip. It would be interesting to know how it accorded with people's memories of the time. There was an edition of The Reunion radio programme which united the women involved in the protest but I can't remember much more than the fact some of them had not been in the same room as each other since the protest. I'd have thought that the character was a male opponent of beauty contests but I agree that there is a tendency to gloss over things like racism or homophobia in that sort of feel good film, as well as your example of the photoshopped placard.

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