Teenager guilty of murder.

[placemats]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

Apart from the fact that she was raped, if consent to sex is to be a legal term, I find the prosecutions allegations appalling.

'But the prosecution alleged Mayo must have known she was pregnant but chose to deliberately conceal it because she was always planning to kill the baby.'

Perhaps Mayo didn't get early abortion help she needed. I know of one woman, who had 3 previous children, who didn't realise she was pregnant, thought it was early menopause until 4 weeks before her due date. However to allege she was always planning to kill the baby is a step too far. It intimates that those in authority know this child's mind.

Again, we don’t know the full facts here, but it isn’t clear that the jury were asked to consider the distinction between manslaughter by reason of DR and infanticide, or how they were directed if they were. We know infanticide had to be left to them as an alternative verdict and it was, and they deliberated for an extensive period of time.
the salient point about the article is it doesn’t provide any basis at all for suggesting the jury in this case got it wrong or were misdirected. And I don’t agree that three convictions in and of themselves provide evidence that the law is not working properly. There is no quota here. Each of those convictions could be perfectly sound.

AgathaSpencerGregson · Today 14:37

AP5Diva · Today 14:09
This thing is wide open for an appeal.

Those who heard the evidence made a decision. Unless there was material irregularity in how they were directed or the trial process, that verdict should be respected. I certainly prefer it to that of armchair experts who think they are better placed to judge.

Yeah. Let’s wait for the view of the KC who actually represented her at trial on that, shall we?

AP5Diva has posted a lot of useful information and interesting answers, as have you imo.

If you find people’s ideas and speculations annoying, ignorant or baseless, I don’t really understand why you are you on this thread answering?

Of course it is all useless and meaningless in face of the real thing. The point is the discussion and being able to think about all the factors involved, isn’t it? I for one have learnt a huge amount I had no idea about.

I have been on a jury on a serious case and can sadly say neither I nor anyone else was that much more of an expert than anyone here. You also got no transcript of the trial to read over to be certain of the sequencing of the events described and it was difficult to be certain of them before coming to a judgement. The report of some of what had been said was really 3rd hand police report not a recording of a 1st person report. The judge moreover made an egregiously wrong, presumptuous remark directing the jury the about women who have experienced domestic abuse.
I understand that everyone was doing their best but it was not perfect.

This Paris Mayo case is very upsetting and unusual in every way with lots that people would want to think about.

There is a difference between discussing the case rationally and advancing speculation and invention to buttress your preferred preconceived view of what the outcome should have been - which people on both sides of the debate are doing, rather than acknowledging that maybe their preconceptions might not be right and they should keep an open mind.
it’s also wrong and unfair to slate jurors and judges by suggesting they got it wrong when you know nothing of what happened, other than that the outcome wasn’t what you wanted.

A jury is potentially just as partisan and prone to speculative and emotional judgement as anyone on this thread.

So with the legal advice she would have had why didn't she plead guilty to infanticide if that was what happened? It doesn't make sense in fact I think many people would have encouraged her to do that even if it wasn't true and lets face it many people would be supporting that.

Well he didn't kill anyone did he so why shouldn't he?

Oh so walking away when someone is in need is perfectly fine - that person will go on to be a great partner/husband and father. Nothing to see here. He just used sperm to create a pregnancy. No one is ever going to judge him.

I know men get blamed for everything on here but seriously you think he should get done for murdering a baby he never even saw? If you mean he should be prosecuted for not supporting her should that happen to all men because the courts will never cope.

Presumably she was sexually experienced as she initially thought the father was someone else.

Was the father another teenager, I googled but can't find anything about him.

Quite, it’s the actions of an insane person with false memories to continue to believe they are innocent and not plead guilty to infanticide - which is exactly what Mayo did.

He should at least be fine for rape @Iwasafool given she was only 15 when she had the baby.

*done not fine

Yes there is a difference but honestly, when statistics state that two thirds of mothers that commit infanticide were suffering from psychosis, it is less of an invention or speculation to adhere to the balance of probability, than it is to insist on the scenario of least probability- that she was sane and it was a premeditated, planned murder.

It’s also not true those of discussing this “know nothing of what happened”

I don’t think it is wrong to question whether a jury got it right in a case like this- especially when it’s not a matter of guilt vs innocence but nuances of infanticide vs murder.

It isn't fine but it isn't criminal.

She was fourteen when pregnant. Y8/Y9 in school term.

No one is fined for raped in this country.

He knew she was pregnant yet did nothing about supporting her. What sort of a parent, and he is a parent, no matter what his age, does that?

Do we know how old he was?

The judge is there to judge the proceedings. Despite the CPS bringing a prosecution of murder, 4 years after the event happened, so that Mayo was prosecuted as an adult and not a juvenile, the Judge did say that Infanticide could be considered by the jury.

So if he was say 14 when impregnating Mayo, would that excuse him? Would him being a teenage father, and he is a father to a dead child, refused to help the mother of his child, would that excuse him?

If as a male, no matter what your age, you refuse to have unprotected sex then the consequences of your actions should be that you help. Not walk away.

If she says she didn't know she was pregnant how would he know?

If he was 14 and it was consensual sex he wouldn't get prosecuted for rape.

Again if she didn't know she was pregnant what was he refusing to help with? .

So, 15yo girls are innocent little children but 15yo boys should be held to the same standards as adults. Interesting.

He had unprotected sex with her twice on two different occasions.

Ergo, there are consequences to these actions.

You think 12 people who have heard all the evidence and been carefully directed by the judge are no more to be relied on than randoms posting on the internet with no knowledge of the case at all?
wow. Incredible scenes on MN this afternoon. Literally incredible.

If you have unprotected sex with a teenage girl/woman as a youth/man you run the risk of being a father. The consequences are simple.

THIS THREAD IS BATSHIT