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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Embassy visit by anti-Terf trans activist criticised by Kemi Badenoch

22 replies

IwantToRetire · 23/06/2023 00:30

Promoting its event on Jun 19, the British Embassy in Helsinki said on Twitter that with “Pride month in full swing”, the ambassador Ms Bubbear “pointed out at our panel discussion on the anti-gender movement [that] Pride is for the whole of the year”.
Dr Honkasalo, from the University of Helsinki, also told embassy staff that the “anti-gender movement” – which he has previously dismissed as “anti-trans groups that claim to be feminist” in the UK – is “difficult to challenge”.

Embassy staff were told that “to oppose anti-gender actors, we need a wide grassroot level coalition of solidarity taking into account that the majority is #diverse”.
But in a research paper in April titled, “Transfeminine letter clubs, community care and the radical politics of the erotic”, Dr Honkasalo used the controversial term “Terfs”, which has been used by activists to describe figures such as the author JK Rowling who defend biological sex as binary and immutable against calls for limitless self-identified genders.

He wrote: “As has been shown by Pearce et al. (2020), in the UK context in particular, the Terf rhetoric vocally draws on a history of moral panics that insist trans women are sexually predatory (e.g. Raymond, 1979).

“This rhetoric constructs the White, feminine, heterosexual or lesbian ‘biological woman’ as a fragile and vulnerable subject in need of protection, whereas racialised and gender non-normative bodies appearing in public spaces are conceptualised as a sexual threat.

“As Ulrika Dahl (2017) and others have pointed out, a feminist discourse that centres on the fragility and vulnerability of White femininity is predominant also in much of White, liberal feminism (Dahl and Volcano, 2009; Pearce et al. 2020; Snorton, 2017).

“Hence, the Terf rhetoric draws on a long tradition of transmisogyny and racism inherent in feminist theory.”

(A) Tory MP said: “Referring to people who care about single sex spaces and women’s basic rights as ‘Terfs’ shows how out of touch these gender extremists are. We shouldn’t be entertaining them using taxpayer cash.”

This is from a Telegraph article reprinted by yahoo. Embassy visit by anti-Terf trans activist criticised by Kemi Badenoch (yahoo.com)

(Part of me doesn't want to use material from the Telegraph but if they are the only paper doing research - getting leaks - about this, then there isn't much choice. If other so called newspapers were doing their job - ie reporting - there would be multiple sources. We are sleepwalking into this. We are having what is actually happening being hidden from us - by "NEWS" papers.)

Embassy visit by anti-Terf trans activist criticised by Kemi Badenoch

Kemi Badenoch has rebuked the British embassy in Finland for inviting a trans activist who has claimed that “Terfs” are racist.

https://uk.style.yahoo.com/embassy-visit-anti-terf-trans-190518169.html

OP posts:
DarkDayforMN · 23/06/2023 00:44

Transfeminine letter clubs, community care and the radical politics of the erotic

oh my god, shut up. These people go beyond navel gazing; they think their belly button fluff is dissertation material. Sexy dissertation material.

What a bunch of fart-huffing wankers.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans · 23/06/2023 01:08

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/13505068231164215

Sounds very interesting from the abstract, would love to get a copy. Seems a lot more nuanced and well-researched than the Telegraph's crude summary of "they claim terfs are racist". But then as you seem to be alluding to @IwantToRetire, it would hardly be the first time that the Telegraph has misrepresented people, issues and events in the interests of constructing a narrative.

Also just as an aside, that drag recreation of that dress from Titanic is lovely!

JeandeServiette · 23/06/2023 01:14

DarkDayforMN · 23/06/2023 00:44

Transfeminine letter clubs, community care and the radical politics of the erotic

oh my god, shut up. These people go beyond navel gazing; they think their belly button fluff is dissertation material. Sexy dissertation material.

What a bunch of fart-huffing wankers.

Blame academia for incubating this stuff.

DemiColon · 23/06/2023 01:48

The way that tries to imply the "anti-trans" are also racists is very typical.

Rightsraptor · 23/06/2023 06:12

'...racialised ... bodies appearing in public spaces ...'

Am I the only person who finds that utterly dehumanising?

What a disgusting thing to write.

PriOn1 · 23/06/2023 07:28

The abstract mentioned above and described as “nuanced” 🤣

Yes, the eroticism of dressing as a woman is generally very neglected as a topic. Indeed mention of it is generally very much frowned upon and specific mention is sometimes wiped from this board.

”This essay examines trans feminine community-building and care in the context of desire and the erotic as forms of political praxis. The theoretical core of the text builds on Audre Lorde’s broad, poetic use of the erotic as well as José Muñoz’s aesthetic and utopian notion of queer future. I argue that Lorde and Muñoz provide important tools for theorizing the erotic as a politically subversive and utopian form of care in the contemporary political setting of rising anti-genderism, moral conservativism and neo-fascism. The essay begins though a brief, historical examination of the ways in which transgender sexuality, desire and the erotic have come to be a neglected and contested topic in both academic and clinical research, despite what Michel Foucault defines as a ‘discursive explosion’ on the truth about sex and sexuality in modernity. I will then point out historical counter examples of transfeminine, transvestite and cross-dresser community-building in which care is intimately linked to the erotic in Lorde’s sense of the term. Finally, I argue that trans desire and the erotic should be understood as radically political in Muñoz’s sense of utopian imagining of a future yet to be made.”

turbonerd · 23/06/2023 07:41

Rightsraptor · 23/06/2023 06:12

'...racialised ... bodies appearing in public spaces ...'

Am I the only person who finds that utterly dehumanising?

What a disgusting thing to write.

«This rhetoric constructs the White, feminine, heterosexual or lesbian ‘biological woman’ as a fragile and vulnerable subject in need of protection, whereas racialised and gender non-normative bodies appearing in public spaces are conceptualised as a sexual threat.»

Yes, this jumped out at me to.
What the hell are they gibbering on about.
Biological woman in quote marks (or what they are called again). Why?

Racialised and gender Non-normative bodies.
That just means anyone.
Though if you insist on wearing fetish gear on your amblings in tesco …

Off on one of my tangents:
If ‘race’ within the human race exists (am not now belittling or denying racism btw) then we are all ‘racialised bodies’.
It makes no sense.

Abhannmor · 23/06/2023 08:07

DarkDayforMN · 23/06/2023 00:44

Transfeminine letter clubs, community care and the radical politics of the erotic

oh my god, shut up. These people go beyond navel gazing; they think their belly button fluff is dissertation material. Sexy dissertation material.

What a bunch of fart-huffing wankers.

@DarkDayforMN You have distilled the essence of this text for us! 💐

Now if you could see your way to explaining Judith Butler...

IcakethereforeIam · 23/06/2023 10:38

Thar supposed to be the Titanic dress? I thought he'd been gift-wrapped, badly.

Also, in light of recent events, kind of poor taste.

@DarkDayforMN brilliant!

Bosky · 24/06/2023 03:39

PriOn1 · 23/06/2023 07:28

The abstract mentioned above and described as “nuanced” 🤣

Yes, the eroticism of dressing as a woman is generally very neglected as a topic. Indeed mention of it is generally very much frowned upon and specific mention is sometimes wiped from this board.

”This essay examines trans feminine community-building and care in the context of desire and the erotic as forms of political praxis. The theoretical core of the text builds on Audre Lorde’s broad, poetic use of the erotic as well as José Muñoz’s aesthetic and utopian notion of queer future. I argue that Lorde and Muñoz provide important tools for theorizing the erotic as a politically subversive and utopian form of care in the contemporary political setting of rising anti-genderism, moral conservativism and neo-fascism. The essay begins though a brief, historical examination of the ways in which transgender sexuality, desire and the erotic have come to be a neglected and contested topic in both academic and clinical research, despite what Michel Foucault defines as a ‘discursive explosion’ on the truth about sex and sexuality in modernity. I will then point out historical counter examples of transfeminine, transvestite and cross-dresser community-building in which care is intimately linked to the erotic in Lorde’s sense of the term. Finally, I argue that trans desire and the erotic should be understood as radically political in Muñoz’s sense of utopian imagining of a future yet to be made.”

Since this is all written in po-mo shit-gibbering Kweerish I think it is safe to assume that every instance of the word "care" should be understood to mean "harm".

SerotinaPickeler · 24/06/2023 07:17

Abhannmor · 23/06/2023 08:07

@DarkDayforMN You have distilled the essence of this text for us! 💐

Now if you could see your way to explaining Judith Butler...

I can't even understand the MNetters explanations of the article, let alone the original text, and I've been educated by FWR.

IWillNoLie · 24/06/2023 10:02

Aside from the fact that it sounds like they had an embassy visitor who was telling them they should ignore the Equality Act, isn’t that essay just about autogynaephilia?

Forwarder · 24/06/2023 10:26

PriOn1 · 23/06/2023 07:28

The abstract mentioned above and described as “nuanced” 🤣

Yes, the eroticism of dressing as a woman is generally very neglected as a topic. Indeed mention of it is generally very much frowned upon and specific mention is sometimes wiped from this board.

”This essay examines trans feminine community-building and care in the context of desire and the erotic as forms of political praxis. The theoretical core of the text builds on Audre Lorde’s broad, poetic use of the erotic as well as José Muñoz’s aesthetic and utopian notion of queer future. I argue that Lorde and Muñoz provide important tools for theorizing the erotic as a politically subversive and utopian form of care in the contemporary political setting of rising anti-genderism, moral conservativism and neo-fascism. The essay begins though a brief, historical examination of the ways in which transgender sexuality, desire and the erotic have come to be a neglected and contested topic in both academic and clinical research, despite what Michel Foucault defines as a ‘discursive explosion’ on the truth about sex and sexuality in modernity. I will then point out historical counter examples of transfeminine, transvestite and cross-dresser community-building in which care is intimately linked to the erotic in Lorde’s sense of the term. Finally, I argue that trans desire and the erotic should be understood as radically political in Muñoz’s sense of utopian imagining of a future yet to be made.”

Six erotics in one paragraph. Pretty clear what this trans activist is about.

Forwarder · 24/06/2023 10:29

Do only white women want female-only spaces and their children to grow up grounded in their sexed bodies?

Is this white man telling women of colour which side they have to join?

literalviolence · 24/06/2023 10:32

"This rhetoric constructs the White, feminine, heterosexual or lesbian ‘biological woman’ as a fragile and vulnerable subject in need of protection, whereas racialised and gender non-normative bodies appearing in public spaces are conceptualised as a sexual threat."

This is where we go back to objective reality again though. Women are murdered and sexually assaulted by (mainly) men. You can't word your way out of that fact. Nor can you word your way out of the fact that men in power have created policies and narratives which disadvantage women. Anyone wanting to persuade people that this is just a matter of social construction is someone (oh look, another man) who is trying to continue the oppression of women. Why does anyone read any more of a person's drivel when they have basically said that?

Forwarder · 24/06/2023 10:40

Can anyone explain why a British Embassy is hosting cross dresser events like this? What is the benefit to Britain?

It reads like the Finnish man is having a go at Terf Island. Are he worried Finnish women might be getting ideas from their UK sisters?

Forwarder · 24/06/2023 10:40

*Is he

Forwarder · 24/06/2023 10:45

There might possibly be a TW working for British Embassy in China. Hard to tell though.

Embassy visit by anti-Terf trans activist criticised by Kemi Badenoch
BaronMunchausen · 24/06/2023 10:47

"racialised and gender non-normative bodies appearing in public spaces are conceptualised as a sexual threat"

What he means is "men".
He's denying that men are predatory.

Valeriekat · 29/06/2023 20:00

Forwarder · 24/06/2023 10:40

*Is he

I quite like "are he" or perhaps "are she" would be more acceptable!

GP75 · 29/06/2023 20:10

A bit off topic but why does he have 2 sets of eyebrows?

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