And another…former influencer regrets transition

[Needmoresleep]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12219343/Gen-Zs-trans-poster-child-Milo-2016-MTV-reemerges-tearfully-regretting-hormone-jabs.html

so sad

Not to mention being cast aside by the doctors who were supposed to be helping you if the experience of Jasmine is anything to go by:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/20/tavistock-transgender-patient-mastectomy-regret/

I've seen videos of Jasmine saying this also (I think at a conference with Stella OMalley). She said very clearly she told doctors / HCPs she had mental health problems but they just discharged her with no support at all KNOWING the abuse she'd receive as a detransitioner - knowing she was feeling mentally unwell, knowing she had physical side effects. Where's the medical ethics?

I watched her video and it’s completely heart breaking. Her young body is destroyed and there is no real ‘detransition’ avsilable to her, that term is mute really. We should probably think about how it’s used, it makes it sound like you can just change your mind and go back. She really can’t do that without breasts and a womb, and the permanent effects of testosterone.

I was also intrigued by her mother in the MTV clips. These mothers are certainly a type! I’m sure munchausens by proxy is not off the table.

If the Daily Mail's such a "hate-filled rag" read by narrow-minded people, how come every single comment under that article shows sympathy and best wishes for Milo?

I hate to say it but there's not a lot of hope of things changing unless there's a complete ban on any medical procedures, when transitioning is also pushed by some ignorant or just plain stupid parents. I know how hard it is, my dd was sexually assaulted at 14, bullied horrendously with physical assaults and also has ASD. She turned to transitioning as an escape and it consumed her for years. I truly believe that teens that have suffered some form of trauma and/or are ND use transitioning as an escape route, a way of having control over their lives and bodies. I supported my child but it was really hard I was deeply shocked as I had no idea.

Once we had the talk and she told me how she was feeling I spent a bit of time researching everything I could find about the process. We decided that she would have therapy, she had appointments at the GIDS clinic, she could look how she liked, cut her hair, even changed her name by deed poll and changed her pronouns which was the hardest of all. Calling her him felt so wrong and I kept forgetting and and she would get upset. But I point blank told her no blockers, no testosterone, no surgery, absolutely nothing that wasn't reversible. I made that clear at all the appointments that I would never support anything that couldn't be changed back until she was 18, when I would have no say then anyway.

It was a horrible time. Lots and lots of talking, some shouting and she did threaten suicide a couple of times. Broke my heart a million times over. But she de-transitioned at 19 and is now presenting as female again, very much a feminist and has a lot to say about trans issues now at 21.

The thing is when some parents are so blind-sided, don't do their research or actually push for it wanting their kids to mutilate themselves for whatever reason it will continue on and on. My dd said to me not long ago that if I had allowed her to physically transition, how she feels now is she would have killed herself. There is no going back. It should only be offered to adults over 21, with appropriate support before then. I dread to think of just how many more children are going to be suffering like this poor woman in the DM article.

But surely we do know how testosterone affects the female body. There were a whole slew of Eastern European female athetes being dosed with it. Their subsequent problems aren't secrets. But not enough publicity is given to them, due to the difficulties it then presents in terms of reallocating medals etc.

Female athletes from other countries who had to compete against them knew at the time, eventually the authorities got on board and after the Berlin Wall came down more information came out. Why not look at these studies for comparisions? (the scientific community, i mean, not posters on mn)

@Bremusa

Such a good news story for your dd and your family. I can only imagine your heartbreak along the way but the alternative, as shown by this video, is too horrific to contemplate.

I do think parents play a massive role in all of this when dealing with a teen in trouble. Obviously the medical establishment have a lot to answer for, but parents can still have an influence, a big one in some cases, e.g. the Milo case on this thread, and the other reality star, Jazz (think that is the name?) - both had overly affirming mothers and it certainly seems to me that there is 'something in it' for those mothers, they seem to be deriving some satisfaction/status from it. The fact they have their children documented on reality tv is the biggest red flag ever.

Goodness @Bremusa - I'm so sorry to hear about what your DD went through (and you). Very well done for resisting the irreversible drugs and surgery, it can't have been easy as there seems to be a lot of pressure to transition 'fully'.

It is so sad. I know eunuch is a word just for men / boys and there isn't really a female alternative but the irreversible effects I think are creating this sort of state for boys and girls. They will never know what it's like to have a healthy adult body with normal function.

Teenagers find it very difficult to think about long term consequences and risk assess, that's why they're not allowed to get tattoos etc until they're older. On this one issue (which has such devastating impacts for their bodies) suddenly all we know about child development and safeguarding has been thrown out of the window. Because of adults with an agenda.

And the thought terminating cliches and hiding of the reality with euphemisms - 'gender affirming' surgery - is why we need these detransitioner stories to get out there. So children and parents have some sense of what they're letting themselves in for at the very least.

I think that the Gen z are beginning to see for themselves that gender identity isn't necessarily a permanent position.
I have to tread carefully with some of my DD's friends as they tone and language police themselves and others very closely. But at least 3 teens I know who have been using male (they are all female btw) or NB names for a while have now desisted in their later teens. No interventions except social as far as I know.
I'm pleased that they have found more peace and acceptance of themselves but it's a really powerful message to the allies too.

I agree with this. Any sort of public lens turning to focus on you has effects, let alone when it's as heated and intense as this gender area.

Sorry you went through that @Bremusa and so glad you are through it ok.

part of the "problem" i think is that we 2nd wavers were superceeded by the "lipstick feminists" of the 3rd and subsequent waves which rolled back our ideas of Gender being a useless and needless social construct.

I think they didn't really try hard enough to understand what a social construct is, so where we had people like Marc Bolan and David Bowie wearing and doing what they wanted in the 70s, and the ordinary ones among us were wearing docs and dresses and doing "man" things like woodwork and smoking - the next wave swallowed the lie that women need to conform to a kind of femininity and believed the bigger lie that it is empowering to show your tits (it is if you truly do it for you) or work in the porn industry or whatever. And so on.

It infuriates me - we got so bloody close.

In our day a lot of the (i can't speak for male, i went to a girls' school and only really met men when i left) girls who want to transition to male, would have cut their hair, never worn dresses or "girl shoes" and that would have been it. I have several friends from school and later the army who are, in essence, "butch lesbians" or look/act like "butch lesbians" but aren't lesbian. Women, in other words. Some of them are still like that, others much less so. As we approach our dotage we are shaking our heads and adopting comfortable shoes.

Gen Z haven't embraced that, they have gone another, damaging in lots of cases, route.

It's so desperately sad. The notion of "first do no harm" is completely thrown out of the window. I struggle to understand how any surgeon could mutilate a child's body and think it's ok. Same goes for the irreversible effects of hormone blocking or mimicking drugs.

All the evidence shows that the brain doesn't fully mature until around 25 years old. If an adult wants to change their body, that's one thing. But to do this to a minor? It's unforgivable.

I don’t think she’s yeeted her own teets.

Like Richie Herron?

Poor girl. My heart breaks for her. Does anyone have a link?

My understanding is that she took it down because of the backlash. I understand that the original 2016 MTV clip is still up.

My bigger concerns are that:

1. The pro transition material remains on the internet even though she does not want it to be there.
2. That she has had to pull something because of the backlash. We have seen enough "apology" retractions from people who are in a more secure place to know that the pressure is huge.

So overall my concern is that those in favour of transitioning children are still controlling the dialogue. My biggest concern is that people like a younger Bremusa and their DC are able to do their research and come to an informed decision. The Mail is one of the few free to access GC outlets with a comparable reach to YT or MTV.

Yes she is clearly a vulnerable adult and the Mail story, whilst potentially helping others, may not help her (though I hope she has people who are reaching out). But the fact that the MTV material, effectively advocating child muti9lation, is still online is far more worrying. .

Dr Scythe Gallagher...

So sorry to hear how difficult it was. Well done for protecting your dd and helping her to come out the other side.