Gender GP: Inside the world of private trans healthcare

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podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-slow-newscast/id1487320403?i=1000617431129

Just giving this podcast (which includes an interview with Helen Webberley) a thread of its own because it is frankly astounding and well worth a listen…

“Last year journalist Polly Curtis spent months trying to understand what went wrong at the Tavistock’s Gender Identity Development Service for young people. You can hear her Tortoise podcast series: Inside the Tavistock here. In the reporting of that series one thing kept coming up: some young people who couldn’t - for whatever reason - access the Tavistock - the only NHS service in England for young people with gender dysphoria, were going down the private healthcare route. So what happens if a young person follows that path? This is the story of Gender GP and its founder, Helen Webberley, an entrepreneurial doctor from south Wales.”

I listened to this today. It was... unnerving. That extraordinary certainty that she was always absolutely right, was just really, really uncomfortable. Also the sense, (although the reporting I felt was quite leading here), that GenderGP was the side hustle amongst variously tried side hustles that came good.

Also the idea that young people can just buy hormones from drug dealers was completely new to me, I feel ridiculously naive that that had never occurred to me before.

I agree Hopelessly, I'm still mulling over what to make of it as it was an eye opener in many respects. I hadn't listened to Tortoise's previous reporting on the Tavistock.

Obviously I have read about it over the years but this touched on so many elements of the whole business that my DCs will soon start to become aware of, that it was the first time it has concerned me as a parent rather than just politically.

Webberley came across as almost naive - but then the money-making potential is so absurdly vast that getting Susie Green on board and linking up their resources seemed a rather chilling marriage.

I thought she came across as reckless and the idea that she is following some sort of best practice or evidence base was completely undermined. For both her first adult and child case she said it just “felt” like the right thing to do. And she clearly gets a thrill from people’s gratitude. Definitely a bit of a God complex going on. It’s scary that someone like her is still allowed to practice.

About ten years ago there was a real problem where I live with kids as young as 12 getting hold of so-called prescription drugs - Valium, Tramadol and Xanax, various generics etc. There was a whole series of stuff that kids were buying after self-diagnosing with anxiety. They were sold by the same street dealers as cannabis at the time. They may well still be selling the whole lot, and adding "T" and other hormones to the menu.

Listening to this podcast reminded me that allowing children to self-diagnose, and then decide on their own treatment, can't possibly be good.

I found her attitude, and platitudes, quite shocking. And she's meant to be a doctor; she must be intelligent, she should be well-educated, but she has no sense of self-moderation (and a very strong interest in making money).

I wonder what her relationship with Gender GP is now. Do the Webberley’s still own it?

They may well still be selling the whole lot, and adding "T" and other hormones to the menu.

Sounds like it would be worth their while. You can imagine where it might end. There’s a real culture building around “DIY” hormone treatment to bypass medical gate keeping. And as this becomes normalised people will become more and more reckless in securing their drug of choice. Then when the risks of buying from dealers becomes apparent they’ll push for “harm reduction” schemes where anyone can just turn up at a chemist and get free hormones. And the trans activists have then achieved what they wanted from the start.

https://www.firefund.net/hrtshouldbefree

About ten years ago there was a real problem where I live with kids as young as 12 getting hold of so-called prescription drugs - Valium, Tramadol and Xanax,

This is an interesting point as that seems so very of its time, at least media-wise - what springs to mind immediately is eg the likes of Matthew Perry and Xanax, and the Frankie Boyle (ugh) show Tramadol Nights. You don't hear of that sort of thing these days.

An indication this will all go the same way in time, hopefully.

The way she describes herself as 'a doctor peddling in business' shows that she knows that the fact she's a doctor gives patients the impression that she's trustworthy and credible, not just an online drug pusher which is the reality.

I doubt some parents would dare buy off label drugs on the internet for their children but they buy from he because of the credibility that she brings, yet when you listen to how she is diagnosing kids it is done on a purely superficial level.

The twin Patient A she states was "the most boy thing I've ever seen". They are fast tracked by Webberley to presumably be on puberty blockers and testosterone at the same time. She says the mum of patient a said that they would commit suicide if not given testosterone "and I believed her". Any respectable doctor would not prescribe drugs because the patient's mother said that if they did not their child would commit suicide. She's just prescribing to anyone who turns up and asks, while pretending it's health care.

She set up a medical website on the basis of having seen one 12 year old patient. WTF??

The twin Patient A she states was "the most boy thing I've ever seen".

Yes part of her diagnostic criteria appeared to be assessing the male or female “attributes” of the person. So for the 1st adult patient she saw it was that they were wearing a bra and nail polish and for the child it was “the most boy thing I’ve ever seen”. Honestly I think even trans activists must cringe at such overt stereotyping.

'Peddling' seemed such a strange word to use, as well. It did jump out. It just made me think of the wicked witch trying to get Snow White to take a poisoned apple.

Wait a minute. Might be on to something there..!

Yes it also brings to mind the Victorian quack doctors. No regulation. No evidence base. Just blind faith that’s something will work and a complete lack of concern that you may be doing more harm than good.

I also noticed the "most boy thing I've ever seen".

She means, of course, a girl with short hair wearing jeans and a t-shirt that isn't pink. Which, until about 1990, was every girl in the world.

It would be difficult to pick me out as a girl in my childhood photos, or any of my friends. We were all just children, we all wore roughly the same hand-me-downs, we all had short hair (nits, I presume ), or at least as short as the boys who all had "long" hair in the 70s. Every one of my class aged 11 would have been the "most boy thing" anyone had ever seen.

Again forgive my naivety, I know Dr Webberly is a GP, is she a GP with a specialism in endocrinology? She surely isn't prescribing hormones like they were antibiotics? No other background exploration?

You'd think so.

But according to what she says, she prescribes hormones on demand. I've had more scrutiny form my gp before getting antibiotics for a sore throat.

No she is not an endocrinologist. But she can legitimately prescribe any medicine as a GP.

She appears to rely on patients telling her they are trans in lieu of a diagnosis. I don’t know if she is currently prescribing hormones to children. I’d be amazed if she could get indemnity to cover her it’s obvious an increasingly risky area of healthcare.

The Webberleys have sold Gender GP, I think to a company based in Hong Kong. some years ago.

I believe the ownership of said Hong Kong-based company is purposely obscure. Who pays the Webberlys fees as consultants, either on a freelance basis or through another of their companies based overseas, like Panama for instance. Who knows? We are unlikely to be able to discover. I need to train up as a forensic accountant, I reckon

There's quite a lot about the Webberleys and their various business ventures on this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3588654-dr-mike-webberley-suspended

I've just listened to this. Absolutely horrifying.

Helen Webberley comes across as dangerous.

How can she not follow the line of questioning when asked why she only sees the young people for whom drugs are the right option? That everyone she sees is going to be better off taking life long medication?

She also seems to have an unhealthy reaction to patient's 'relief and gratitude.'

The whole thing is terrifying.

I hadn't heard of Polly Curtis, the journalist who presented the podcast, before. What an excellent job she did.

She got the measure of Webberley all right.

I've just found the rest of the series.

It's very similar ground to Hannah Barnes' work but it is still horrifying to listen to the decision making and how it was made without a firm evidence base. And how on earth it was so influenced by outside agencies and activist groups.

Polly Curtis asks a lot of the right questions.

These episodes are absolutely mind blowing.

Lots of individual testimonies that are just so sad.

Polly Curtis seems to have got a lot more interview time with Polly Carmichael etc than Hannah Barnes did.

@QuickWash Please could link the other episodes? I can't seem to find them.

Please could you link...