Heads should stop teachers allowing children to identify as cats, says No 10

[IwantToRetire]

The spokesman said that teachers should not teach “contested opinions as facts” and called for headteachers to intervene in extreme cases.

“It would not be right to comment on the actions of a specific individual or a specific school without knowing the full details, but we understand why these reports will be concerning for parents,” the spokesman said.

“In broad terms, teachers have a responsibility to encourage their students to engage respectfully with those they disagree with.

“They should also not be teaching contested opinions as fact, shutting down valid discussions and debates.

“It’s important parents and carers are reassured that children aren’t being influenced by personal views of those teaching them. Any example that strays from this would be wrong and we would expect headteachers to act.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/20/rye-college-children-neo-pronouns-cats-moons-rishi-sunak/

Unlike the headline the article makes it clear that a "spokesman" (how old fashioned and sexist shouldn't that be spokesperson?!) has said this so Sunak may or may not have a public opinion about this ...

But the Telegraph seems to be keen to keep the issue of self identifying on their front pages.

When I first heard about children doing this I thought (hoped) that it was younger children making fun of the trans generation, but seems not.

NB article is behind a paywall but can be read at https://archive.ph by entering the Telegraph URL above into the box.

(The cat in picture below looks very cross. Probably feels the same way GC women feel - outraged at the notion that some young human could in any way know or speak with experience based knowledge about being a cat!)

Fucked if I know. The govt tell us we have to teach it though so I guess we have to refer to those people who do apparently know.

The govt recommend Stonewall.

Absolutely - Kathleen Stock is a prime example of an individual badly let down by the union that should have been supporting them.

Fucked if I know. The govt tell us we have to teach it though so I guess we have to refer to those people who do apparently know.

Cop out.

We are required to teach "facts" (some people believe...) and the law (what do the GRA and EA say).

We do not have to spout Stonewall nonsense and those of us with any conscience should be challenging anyone who tells us to.

@noblegiraffe

"Isn't that the view that the teacher was saying? Biological sex and gender are different, you can identify differently to your biological sex and people shouldn't be called weird or crazy?"

The teacher also told them they were 'despicable' and not welcome at the school. For believing in biological fact and stating their opinion that there are two sexes. Is that ok?

Essentially the TEACHER i.e the paid adult, the one with authority called two girls 'weird and crazy' for believing in scientific reality. And told them they should not voice their opinion i.e. be silenced.

How come the teacher can bully these girls, but they're supposed to respect everyone else's delusions?

Such a HUGE safeguarding failure.

Do we think it's a good thing when students are subjected to this level of coercive control and have to walk on eggshells suppressing their real opinions about scientific facts? These girls weren't silenced, but very few children have the courage of their convictions at this age. These girls had very supportive parents against this level of coercive control, not all children would.

It's directly contrary to KCSIE where belittling a child for stating their opinion is included in the definition of emotional abuse - which this teacher should know.

Lab/Co-op is a weird arrangement from the late 1920s between the separate Labour and Co-Operative Parties that allows an individual to be a member of both simultaneously. These people when elected are listed as Lab/Co-op.

All that was agreed at the end was that the petitions (one in favour of clarifying the Equality Act 2010 and the other against) had been discussed. That's all that ever happens in these debates about petitions, but the government hopefully pays attention to them and decides how to respond.

@TheBiologyStupid thanks for the clarification.

It was surprising how bad it was. How poor her arguments were and how coercive she was.

I agree it’s rare to have a 13 year old who could go what they did

@LadyWithLapdog I’m glad you found the debate interesting, if you feel up to it emailing the MPs with stood arguments on biological reality / sex based is a good way to go.

I got replies from nearly all I emailed, some extrapolating to say they were committed to taking it further

imo finding a small wedge of light and pushing might help, I hope so as it’s all we’ve got atm

My cat identifies as a cat. Therefore can it go to school? They might snooze in lessons and not complete homework but that’s ok.

But that is kind of the point. Surely people can dress as they like, choose their own name, live with/marry who they choose to- in law. But a man will never actually be a woman and a woman will never actually be a man- that's the line. So a man who wants to live as a woman can choose to do so- may use unisex toilets and changing rooms but is not a woman and should not be classified as a woman. And there are parts of society that should simply not be available to that person- women only facilities, women's competitive sport- at any level, rights that are just women's rights. They should not be allowed to deceive any part if society legally.
I don't care who I shop with, drink with, eat out with etc- I choose friends because I like them. But I want to know who they are. If I am allowing them to babysit my children or take them somewhere, I want to know who they are. If I am getting changed in changing rooms with others, I want to know I am with women. If I am chatting about personal things with a friend, I want to know who that person is- not that they are sitting there dressed as and pretending to be a woman and have not told me they are male- I might not be bothered about that but I want to know.If I am employing them to work with children, I want to know who they are. If I am meeting someone who I might have a romantic relationship with (I'm not because I have DH), I want to know that person is actually male.

I know that is controversial and will cause people to get angry but it's how I feel. It matters to me.

Our cats have said they are not interested in identifying as humans - too much fuss in that kind of life. Both asleep in the garden at the minute.

How does identifying as a cat even work?
What does it mean?

Cats can't talk, so does that mean you can't ask them questions?
Cats can't write, so I guess they never have to do SATs, take exams.
Cats don't have hands so does that mean these individuals want their hands sewn together into paws?
Cats aren't eligible for free school meals or NHS treatment, so do they go to the local cat charity & the vet?
What job can a cat do?
Can they be sanctioned for being a cat if they don't update the journal thingy I think people have to do to sign on nowadays?
How do they rent a bedsit or buy a house without reading & writing or a job or benefits?
Do they have to go into quarantine if they want to go abroad?
Are cats eligible for council tax?
If a cat is a cat burglar, can they be charged for committing a crime? (no real cat would be)

Is this what schools & the TQ+ are supporting?

I don't believe anyone who says they are a cat or any animal (I mean, how would they even be able to say it?) thinks they are a cat in any way because I bet they expect to live a human life with human things like internet access, using flushing toilets, eating chocolate or buying clothes, so how exactly are they identifying as a cat?

You may have seen an anonymous DM Katherine Birbalsingh shared about a school in Norfolk. That was me, that is my daughters school. Anyone who thinks this isn't happening is really way behind on the reality in schools these days and the influence particularly of EDI staff who have been employed over the last few years. This isn't a cute let's play cats in the playground scenario. This is a girl who will turn 17 during the school year, almost an adult, who insists her name is Kitten (couldn't really care less about her name although an adult should explain that out in the real world no one will ever take her seriously) and that her identity is the same, and that everyone has to use neopronouns for her. She wears a tail, ears, a collar and lead and drinks out of a bowl rather than a water bottle, which she did at the welcome evening for new pupils to meet current pupils recently. The issue is not the ridiculous "identity" it's that our children are expected to disbelieve reality and participate in this farce. Why on earth should secondary school age children be expected to pretend that a girl, she/her is actually some kind of human/cat cross and refer to her as Kitten/kitten self/or whatever pronoun is communicated. We have no idea about uniform requirements for her but honestly it would not surprise me if suddenly she is given dispensation that others aren't. Do they really think that an almost adult girl lapping water out of a bowl at lunchtime isn't going to cause a distraction/disruption/piss taking galore. And it will be everyone else punished for not being "inclusive". As a well established, traditional CofE independent school parents send their children there with an expectations of standards and discipline, they also expect high academic input and development of critical thinkers, this is likely to affect the reputation of the school and turn it into a punchline in the community: parents are furious but terrified of objecting.

I think we perpetuate sexist stereotypes when we use the term 'live as the opposite sex'. I think that makes it harder for some more rigid thinking people to accept themselves as they are.

So taking the cat scenario as a metaphor for the wider gender issue, how on earth can this be tackled when teachers who speak out are at risk of losing their jobs, and we are at the mercy of mindless guideline followers, complicit in screwing over many teenagers and millions of women. (Ditto the government, the NHS and many other organisations)

I’m genuinely really shocked. What else are our children being taught?

How on earth can someone be educated and qualified enough to hold our children’s futures in their hands, and yet not have the skills to question an ideology that an ounce of critical thought exposes as a clear safeguarding risk.

No wonder home Ed is on the rise, given the choice, who’d put their child’s future in the hands of those who are compliant to the point of putting their students in danger.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. I think this might apply here.

Wales is centre of this tornado they're pushing it hard. Sex education etc. They're celebrating LGBTQ+ hard, furries not a stretch. Just go on FB join Welsh government page and gawp. This is socialism in its purest form. Gordon Brown advising us throughout during the pandemic and beyond. OH the irony. Plaid aren't this extreme despite the press.

Our first minister 😳

Mba1974 that’s terrifying. Hopefully the recording of the teacher telling the two girls to find another school for saying identifying as a cat is ridiculous will put an end to this nonsense.

@noblegiraffe do you allow your pupils to act being cats in your classes?

Thank you for posting this. So Kitten is 17 &: "She wears a tail, ears, a collar and lead and drinks out of a bowl rather than a water bottle, which she did at the welcome evening for new pupils to meet current pupils recently"

That's the safeguarding failure right there. Not just for that mentally unwell girl but for all the other children coerced to accept that this girl is a different species. What message does this school think they're giving to children?

I do hope that all this will empower parents to contact the school and insist in that this girl is not presented as any type of role model but is urgently given the psychological support she urgently needs. For a school allegedly preparing children for adult life, this is a major fail.

If that is a private school as you said, you parents need to get together and use your financial power. Threaten to remove your children elsewhere even a state school.
It's like a sexual fantasy being played out fgs. I would not leave my kid in such a school especially if I were paying fees. Maybe the computer hard-drives of some of the staff need checking tbh.

Forget cats and moons...it's holograms now

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/22/katharine-birbalsingh-child-identifies-hologram-move-school/

"[Katharine Birbalsingh] said she was aware of a child at one school who identifies as a gay male hologram, and at least one school where a whole group of pupils identify as cats.

Ms Birbalsingh said the issue of children wanting to be recognised as animals was a societal problem rooted in parents’ unwillingness to set boundaries or take difficult decisions about parenting.
She also suggested the issue of children identifying as cats, horses, dinosaurs and other animals or objects in schools was more widespread than people realised, as teachers “are not allowed to tell you what’s going on”."

"Ms Birbalsingh told The Telegraph: “This is not a school problem, it is a societal problem.
“As a society we have lost our way. Teachers and parents have allowed children to lead the way and adult authority has completely dissolved.
“In schools we have allowed children to lead the way. We are scared of our children, we are scared of our responsibility of leading, and we are shying away from our duty of looking after our children.
“It starts from when they are babies or toddlers and we give them a choice of food, rather than showing them to eat what’s in front of them.
“For parents of children who are allowed to behave like this in classrooms, I think they need to move schools quickly.
“I don’t want to blame the school, because I think it’s society’s problem, but there will be schools that are more tolerant of this kind of behaviour and schools that are less tolerant.”
Ms Birbalsingh, who has no children identifying as animals in her school, said she knew of a private school in England where “a bunch of girls identify as cats”, adding: “Children like to be different, they like to stand out, and they also want to be part of a group, and if there is a group of children that are different that is the best thing as far as they are concerned.”"

"Sir, my name is Arnold now. I identify as a career under achiever. I must be anally-retentive, petty and cowardly. When I am 14 I intend to divorce my parents. I aspire to be really shit with relationships"

"My father was a half-crazed military failure; my mother, a bitch-queen from Hell. My brothers had all the looks and talent. What did I have? Unmanageable hair and ingrowing toenails. Yes, I admit I'm nothing. But from what I started with, nothing is up."

So important stuff here: Are we talking a hologram with a hard light drive feature or one without a physical body? Do they believe in reincarnation? Do they have a hero alter ego from another dimenson?

I mean of all the things you could aspire to be, I think a Hologram is an interesting choice...

@SunnyEgg thanks for the idea. I have emailed a couple of the MPs who stood out for me and I’ll go back to see who else was also particularly good and measured.