DSD12 nipping it in the bud

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Hi I’m after some advice. My DSD (12) is being utterly sucked in by gender ideology. She has a friend who is trans and is very dominant. She has no supervision online, and as such all her algorithms are #trans etc etc.

Her mum doesn’t think restricting social media will make any difference, but beyond that we (me and her mum) very much align that you can’t change your sex. As step mum I can’t influence how much time she spends on the internet when she’s not with me. We have spent so much of her childhood teaching her about the value of women! We have tried to teach her that her sex is her sex and she can’t change that and the rest is her personality and that’s up to her. It’s incredibly frustrating.

Are there any particularly good resources out there for us to guide DSD through this time?

Is your SD supportive/protective of her friend? Or also exploring whether she might jump on trans bandwagon herself?

Confused by friend and thinking about jumping on the bandwagon. Testing the water with friends by being non binary.

I don't think there's much chance of a child in these circumstances listening to any resources you find.

I say get her talking. Be interested in what it means /to her/ . It may well be things that are familiar to all of us, like hating the stereotypes imposed on us, where you can find lots of common ground. Be accepting that she may think differently to you, try to understand what she does think, but also be clear where your boundaries lie.
( Also the more you talk about it the less sense it all makes. The more she talks the more she has to think.)

(Italics fail)

OP, this long thread is about someone older than your DD but there are knowledgeable experienced posters there. I hope some come and answer you here, but meanwhile you might look through it by bit.

It is difficult for you to take much control given she is your SD, but those thousands of hours on the internet your DSD will have over the next years - unless someone stops her - could definitely cause her harm, and also accelerate the brain washing.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4717419-dd-ran-away-to-be-with-trans-lover-and-refuses-to-return?latest=1

I wonder whether listening to her and her reasons/concerns, then mirroring them back to her with language/concepts based in reality would help?

@thirdfiddle no the resources were for us as parents rather than her… we’re not that mad… yet.
That’s good advice getting her to continue to talk about it and effectively talk herself out of it. Thank you.

@PaleBlueMoonlight I’m not sure I follow what you mean, could you give me an example please? (Probably just being a bit dense here)

@ScrollingLeaves thank you for that thread. I agree that the internet is bad but I don’t know what else I can do about it beyond limit her when she’s with me and her dad. We’re very strict and then her other home is free reign.

This book is good for secondary aged children.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/product/sex-and-gender/

This is what I would do if I had a Year 7 daughter: I would tell her it’s deeply unfashionable once you get older (ie 6th form) and that detransitioning can be embarrassing so remember not to be judgemental when they do (most girls do). I would tell her the main reason young girls get sucked in (all the changes around puberty) and touch on the reasons older men become part of this T club too. There are lots of older men promoting this ideology and this is worrying so there are a lot of people currently making sure laws and safeguards don’t disadvantage women and children. Tell her to be careful because social media on this topic will be populated by lots of older men who have very different ideas on what a woman is, to you, her and her family. And that who are they to decide what she had her friends should be like.

It’s actually a good way to talk about the internet dangers and critical thinking ie. a lot of studies are showing that people don’t understand basic biology. Gender ideology is based on regressive stereotypes of women and gay people, not biology. Take it back to biology with facts about animals etc. if she has pets. And how sad it is because no one can ever really change their sex so it’s all a lie.

Basically demystify the glitters and unicorns and bring it back to reality. And you are happy to answer or discuss anything.

@Tinysoxx thank you. That is thoughtful advice.

@TinyRebel thank you. I’ll check that out.

My kids are younger but I've started the debate with "are girls better than boys?/are boys better than girls?" "Should girls be allowed to play football?/are boys allowed to paint their nails?" This type of question. I also make extreme comments in jest like "I don't think I can buy you that top it's not pink and sparkly like girls should wear... have I got that right?"

It's my personal belief that if they can understand misogyny, sexism and patriarchy (not necessarily know the words but can see the societal patterns) then they can "be kind" as required by school rules (it's a two day internal suspension to voice gender critical beliefs in my child school) be kind but not indoctrinated.

I also think sport is a good way to highlight the unfairness. And think avoiding the sexual violence and toilet debate completely is best with kids unless they raise the topic themselves. If they are TRA leaning the topic is a red flag to them and while we want them to understand what feminism and patriarchy are we don't want to scare them

If you personally had any feelings about not wanting to be a girl when you were younger I'd share that too. I've got photos of me dressed as a boy with short hair and doing 'boy' things my kids have seen. I've said I didn't want to be a girl because I wanted the freedoms boys had before I understood girls should have those freedoms too. Now I'm a mother I think being a woman is amazing but didn't know what it's like to be a mum back then

At 13 I might mention how gender affirming healthcare as kids/teens leads to the health outcomes it does. I'd also maybe mention it stops a person having orgasms.

No big serious conversations. Just little facts here and there and asking them questions so they work it out for themselves

(it's a two day internal suspension to voice gender critical beliefs in my child school)

PurpleBugz that is so wrong. Have you thought of writing to Safe Schools Alliance so they have that information as evidence of what’s going on?

It really depends on your relationship, but things like "it is so hard being non-binary, you couldn't possibly understand!", with a response, "I do understand though what it is like to feel like to feel different from other girls, and to want people to accept me as I am". Not a very good example, but it is generally about reframing what is said so that the child can see how their feelings can also be explained/dealt with, without the need for framing it through the lens of gender ideology.

Get her away from the internet whenever you can. When she's with you try to fill up her time doing embodied activities - can you take her horse riding/cycling, get her volunteering an animal shelter, go rock climbing or swimming or for walks in the country?

She need to learn and appreciate how amazing her body is and all the wonderful things she can do with it.

it's a two day internal suspension to voice gender critical beliefs in my child school

That must be a breach of the equality act 2010

@PurpleBugz i am shocked at the two day internal suspension. So wrong.

Thank you for your thoughts. We’ve taught her about the patriarchy, she’s always worn both “girl” and “boy” clothes, her bedroom has always been blue with us and pink at her mum’s (her choice), we’ve filled her life with so many female role models. She’s got a gay uncle and a gay aunt (both of whom are gender critical). She talks to her small siblings (3 & 5) about gender norms and how silly they are.

I don’t think we’ve spoken enough about how you can’t change your sex, and how sad it is that people think you can. Probably because it is so obvious.

I dearly wish she was into sport or had some kind of hobby that was enough of a distraction from her phone.

I was the ultimate “tom boy” as a child. I had short hair, wore “boy” clothes, hated being a girl, made my first holy communion in trousers (unheard of 🤣), but as I got to about 13ish I began to feel comfortable in my body. I feel like she’s doing the opposite.

She struggles with friendships, they are either very intense pairs or she’s a third wheel.

blughhhh. Parenting is really hard at the moment, I love the bones of this kid and feel like I’m wishing these years away for her to be older and wiser 😔

I’m not aware of anyone (trans included) who thinks someone can change their sex.

@Notamum12345577 which is why we possibly haven't really spoken about it. I didn't think it needed explanation, but in her wee 12 year old head and from what she sees on the internet, and hears from her peers, she possibly thinks that it is a possibility. I don't know.

@PaleBlueMoonlight I understand.

@JacquelinePot we keep her very busy when she's with us, but its only every other weekend/half of the hols, she's a 2-3hr drive away (traffic depending) so we can't do more. But I hear what you're saying about doing physical things and appreciating her body, we could do more of that.

I disagree I still think lots of people do believe that with enough hormones and surgeries that they have changed sex - I believe Keira Bell did. They tend to ignore that sex is based on the reproductive role and that no person has ever gone from producing ova to sperm but that’s all part of the grift. Remember it used to be called ‘Sex Reassignment Surgery’.

There are a few detransitioners on YouTube. Maybe watch some of their content together?

@Notamum12345577 Stonewall are pushing the idea that they can. There are people who claim trans 'women' have periods, that their blood gradually changes that they do develop different chromosomes.

It's all bollocks but it looks like it is official.https://www.stonewall.org.uk/the-truth-about-trans

https://genderanalysis.net/2015/12/chromosomes-cis-expectations-vs-trans-reality-gender-analysis-14/

https://www.snexplores.org/article/gender-when-body-and-brain-disagree