Jailing a mother of three - WTF

[Capitalismwantsyou]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/woman-in-uk-jailed-for-28-months-over-taking-abortion-pills-after-legal-time-limit

Because its going to have an impact on her other children. They are missing tbs mum for 14 months.

As a pp has said, this is relevant and is usually considered in sentencing.

It's about considering the best possible outcome for all concerned, not saying that people with children should be able to commit crimes with impunity.

PorcelinaV · Today 23:16
cyncope · Today 22:22

Pregnant women can take whatever they like.

“Personally I think that's completely immoral”

Agree.

Oh FFS, you again. Is there some anti-woman bat signal that goes out?

I'm gobsmacked by the pp suggesting that the mother deserves it because she was 'shagging around'.

WTAF?

So we are back to judging women by their 'moral purity' are we?

Agree with or vehemently disagree with her actions, but who she had sex with should not factor in to that decision!

I just can't believe what I've read. On the feminist board.

They don't care what board its on. Just looking for another thread to post in after the AIBU thread closed.

Yes. I do support terminations for any reason at any stage.

This is punishing her children, who will be deprived of their mum. Awful.

Should she be criminalised for drinking during pregnancy?

There are US states that have jailed women who used drugs whilst pregnant. Do you think that jailing her helps anyone? There are women in the same states who have been subjected to criminal investigation for having a bona fide miscarriage under the same foetal protection laws used to jail the pregnant drug and alcohol users.

We can believe that a particular action is a really stupid idea without believing that criminalisation of that action is sensible.

@Alsobeyondshit Do you support sex selective abortions? I know there used to be a few on mn who thought that was fine.

CheeseTouch · Today 23:32
This is punishing her children, who will be deprived of their mum. Awful.”

She was aware of the law and the possible implications for her children. She deliberately lied to get around it. That is awful.

Ah yes I forgot that. No I don't in theory - and it's illegal, I think rightly. But what happens in the UK when someone wants a sex based abortion but can't have one? I know in other countries baby girls have been dumped in the gutter. I'm not sure that's better.

The alternatives are:

• to argue that aborting disabled babies is OK but aborting non-disabled ones isn't. The optics on that aren't great.
• to remove the option of aborting a disabled baby. I imagine that a lot of people wouldn't welcome that.

I think a lot of people on the AIBU thread conflated "what I think is immoral" with "what should be criminalised". Adultery is immoral but not criminalised. Abortion can be thought of in the same way.

Killing a viable child is terrible. I would worry for her other children

In India, parents bury their baby girls alive.

@Alsobeyondshit I am so glad you don't, it always seemed weird to me to argue that it should be legal to abort on the grounds of sex.

Yes is sex selective abortion better or worse than infanticide :(

Through lockdown the pills were made available by post. There were many concerns within the nhs with those professions caring for women about this. No scans etc. It was the best that could be offered for women in covid. Sadly there are other stories of this occurring. And still they offer this service! Some feel it is good for women in abusive relationships as they don't need to attend hospital. It is a real worry for women who may get dates muddled or lie as they are scared. This could also be very dangerous for women who do not reach out for help if giving birth alone and things go wrong. Such a sad story all round

Mostly I would agree with you. However, I have encountered a family where the mother was expected to keep having babies until she produced a boy. She was up to six girls the last time I knew her. Maybe she might have welcomed the option of not having to keep on doing that.

I agree with abortion at this stage being illegal, but I think this woman needs therapy not a prison sentence. No one in their right mind, thinking clearly, would choose to abort at home at that stage. She must have either not had full understanding of how horrific that would be or be so desperate. Neither of those are helped by being imprisoned.

We don't improve the status of women and girls within society by forcing women to gestate, whether they are gestating daughters or not.

Actually it could be relevant that she was ‘shagging around’ because she may have felt very unsafe at home knowing the baby was from her affair partner, for example.
And/or she could have delayed having the abortion because she was trying to make it work to be with the affair partner, for him to raise the baby with her.

I think this is a minority view but that doesn’t mean women should go to jail.

Dancingcandlesticks · Today 23:54
I agree with abortion at this stage being illegal, but I think this woman needs therapy not a prison sentence. No one in their right mind, thinking clearly, would choose to abort at home at that stage. She must have either not had full understanding of how horrific that would be or be so desperate. Neither of those are helped by being imprisoned.”

I can’t imagine being 44, with three children already, having sexual relations with three men (reportedly) and not knowing how to prevent a pregnancy.

Perhaps while she is in prison she will get the help she clearly needs.

Thought experiment: abortion is decriminalised at all stages of pregnancy and the medical regulators have decided what abortion care should consist of at each stage in pregnancy. A mother of three is 32 weeks pregnant and has recently changed partners from man B back to man A. A is the father of her three children. B is the father of her pregnancy. The mother has moved in with A immediately after leaving B, during a pandemic lockdown. The mother telephones an abortion hotline to request an abortion.

What do you think she would be asked during that phone call? What do you think would happen at the clinic? What do you think that gold standard care should look like for that woman? And do you think that she would lie about her conception date if abortion were decriminalised?

This is definitely not a common occurrence like you’ve stated it is.