Universities which are less ‘captured’ by gender ideology

[percypig]

Morning, this thread has been inspired by one about a survey in Leeds and by recent coverage of events at universities across the UK.

My eldest DC is starting to look at universities for 2024 and in my working life as a teacher I’m often talking to 6th formers about their Uni choices.

I’m wondering if anyone has experience of universities which are, as my title says, ‘less captured’ than others? Or conversely, others were being gender critical could make for a really unpleasant university experience.

Students and families weigh up all sorts of criteria from en-suites to job prospects, clubs and societies on offer to lab facilities. Given recent events I’d also like to know how open universities and their students are to gender critical beliefs.

Wasn't that City University? Or is that part of UCL?

It was City University which is different (there are many universities under the UoL banner)

I agree that subject makes a big difference. I'm an academic but in a Business School which makes a big difference. Social Sciences and Humanities are often pretty captured. STEM not so much (though suspect Computer Science may be given the number of TW in that area)

Yep, City is not UCL

Isn't UCL a college of the University of London - along with LSE, Kings, Queen Mary, Goldsmiths, Birkbeck etc?

City University is an entirely separate university, or used to be.

<nods vigorously again>

That’s a helpful point about subject choice @lgmum, particularly about Computer Science, which I wouldn’t have known or guessed.

University of London is a pretty useless and irrelevant umbrella and the constituent colleges are completely autonomous organisations. It's always struck me as odd that the University of London is so invisible - just think where it would be in global rankings and name recognition if it existed in the way that University of Oxford and University of Cambridge do.

There are 17 colleges within the UoL, including LSE and UCL, but they are independent entities issuing their own degrees. At some point Imperial left altogether. City was never part of UoL. It’s not too clear what UoL does.

City has been part of UoL since 2016

Any of the catholic universities are a good bet. St Mary’s Twickenham is the biggest. Not so much GC as welcoming to all faiths (and none) so have many students for whom respect for single sex spaces is important.

I wouldn't take the pronouns as evidence of anything. The university where I work has a good proportion of pronoun staters and the SU does all of that too, but I've never been asked or compelled to do so. We have gender neutral loos but also single sex loos, but then there is a policy (not well publicised) of use the loo you're comfortable in.

All the trans students I've had have been lovely young people but increasingly it's female to male, not the other way around.

I'd say at the moment we're doing a nice job of being balanced though I'm aware that it could change. I'm always keeping an eye on the training we get and LGBTQ network. They all advise pronoun stating as support. 🙄

I'd say the emphasis within courses comes from individual lecturers like me, so I will never ask students their pronouns openly but I do invite them to email me so I can let staff know. They seem to be happy with this approach so far. But if someone takes over from me, that could change.

If you Google 'University of Exeter Trans' 2 documents for inclusion come up. Both have definitions/glossaries that I find highly offensive including an actual example of a Lesbian given as a TW who is attracted to women.

Lots of cis this and that.

One doc also talks about how on a residential the trans student should get to choose who they share a room with for their comfort....

It also quotes absolutely mad statistics such as stating really high suicide rates and states that any PERCEIVED transphobia is a criminal offence (no citations given)

They come across as completely captured

Nooooo not Exeter too? I had also noticed the mixed sex toilets and the large LGBTQ+ display ‘in front’ of the library and had hoped this wasn’t indicative of a whole Uni policy, but if the docs of inclusion is as you say (summarised -willing to classify and identify free speech as criminal), I will need to gently steer my DC in another direction as DC is only interested in facts, looking to take a STEM degree, a very logical thinker and will express their views if asked or naturally within an open discussion.

This threat to shut down another’s view point which differs from what is effectively a ‘theory’, is what’s frankly criminal.

Trans people do need to be protected, but not at the expense of women or logic. There has to be another way to address this real issue.

Oh Exeter management and HR are totally captured. It’s terrible for the staff there ( I have GC academic friends who are suffering). Not sure it makes much difference to the vast majority of students though. They can probably avoid gender woo extremism by picking options accordingly. That is, avoiding tutors and non-compulsory modules which spout this anti-intellectual rubbish.

They can probably avoid gender woo extremism by picking options accordingly. That is, avoiding tutors and non-compulsory modules which spout this anti-intellectual rubbish

Yes I was going to say the same.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-06-05-uk-s-first-professor-lgbtq-history-university-oxford

(I have googled the “renowned historian” but can find little detail about his academic achievements. No doubt he will now be “renowned” simply for being the first Professor of LGBTQ+ studies, and no doubt will make great contributions toward the betterment of humanity.

Durham looks to be 'captured' but its not really.

The UCU branch there and the SU wang on about the gender bollocks very publicly on Twitter, and create a sense that the Durham student body is cohesively of the TWAW mindset.

It's not true. At all.

There's a small number of staff and students who're banging the gender bollocks drum but the vast majority are not. These staff and students are smattered around the university though concentrated in the humanities and social sciences.

Am in same stage of life with one of my DS. Totally missed Loughborough being an issue, we disliked as it was sports crazy and course was completely wrong. Wonder if this is why they have two tiered sports teams? Elite, for want of better word, for regular Wednesday matches and then general stuff.

Warwick was a concern with mixed gender toilets and changing rooms. Main concern were toilets with floor to ceiling doors and no alarms. Disaster for a medical emergency. Also, had a huge poster which outlined the Equality Act incorrectly (sex replaced by gender) plus a massive list of sexual orientations including pansexual, aromantic, omnisexual as the milder ones. I honestly don’t see the need to outline all these, I think bisexual was deemed outdated.

York, again mixed gender and disabled toilets (my pet hate, disabilities should not be lumped in) which were broken and unhygienic. Considering I was dealing with the period that would have made Carrie blush was pathetic.

Am hoping DS will avoid most of this as opting for a science where biological facts will feature.

Warwick really should do better given the APPALLING record they gave for defending male students who act like sexist jerks. Warwick does not have a good record on keeping female students safe.

Re. The professorial appointment- plenty of professors and other researchers work in this area. The naming of Chairs is partly a political institutional thing. My chair was a named Chair I was appointed to, but other colleagues have chosen the names of their jobs when they’ve been promoted to professor.

Wouldn’t Imperial be a safe bet? It doesn’t offer any of the artsy-fartsy subjects that tend to attract muddled thinking. I’ve never know a scientist or engineer who had any truck with it.

Not sure about Imperial, I think a former member of their senior management was forced into an apology for liking tweets or something similar: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/31/imperial-college-professor-issues-grovelling-apology-promoting/

As a prospective student, I would read university EDI and in particular trans policies (which are created by EDI employees, not academics) and write directly to the EDI office if you find them objectionable or in breach of equalities law (ideally with cc to the Vice Chancellor).

EDI staff are often female and fairly ‘woke’, they lack direct contact with students and as a consequence sometimes develop a bit of a ‘student saviour’ complex. Students are a lot more resilient than they are generally given credit for.

@Meanacademic wow, looks like the SU in particular has gone completely right-on. Complete contrast to the 80s/90s when it wasn’t even affiliated to the NUS and the union bar was decorated with regimental and ships crests, as the drinking societies had a tradition of their members who went into the forces donating a crest back to the society. Oh and named tankards over the bar. All gone apparently. It was a pretty homophobic place to be fair, looks like they’ve replaced one kind of homophobia with another.

That professor has since moved on to become VC at another university 🤐