I terfed at work

[OhCareerSuicide]

Obvious name change for this.

So. It’s pride month, and at this mornings department weekly meeting we had the LGBT network delivering a slot on what pride month means, why it’s important to all LGBT people and a bit about rights for LGBT people globally. All fine.

The side chat on Teams got a bit political, and headed in the direction of government policy and discrimination of trans people, conversion therapy, and self ID. I was a little uneasy as I think this is quite political and not a good topic for a professional setting. But then it got worse - a (presumed) male colleague (I don’t know them) weighed in that the gov policy was scapegoating and ‘pretending it’s a women’s safety issue’ and suggested that it ‘appeals to a certain type of reactionary’.

My phone went crazy with messages and as a person with some responsibility I wrote a very polite, balanced and neutral message to the director saying that this was a one-sided view and I didn’t think it appropriate. My concerns were acknowledged but the org have declined to do anything about it. They have made statements about other (imo milder) forms of discriminatory talk before, but it seems that women are fair game.

So now I know. My org will not back me. And I’ve put myself out on the parapet (albeit confidentially). Ho him.

Well done.

What action were you expecting? He sounds like a twat, but it doesn’t sound as if what he said would prompt disciplinary action.

I’m not trying to minimise his twattery - or your bravery. I just don’t think you should assume that your actions were in vain.

Thanks. More that any time anyone has ever said anything remotely not ok they have been spoken to, and often an org-wide email sent reminding people that discriminatory behaviour will not be tolerated. We’ve even had it when someone shared a gambling tip.

I guess you’re right, they might not have done anything but I’m also not sure they cared.

My cynical view is that organisations rarely care about anything other than their own success. It's just there's significant coercion - and potential reward - for being performative about some rights issues.

"Women's rights" doesn't exert the same pressure and probably never will because "women" does not include men.

I'd be tempted to ask your organisation whether they'd accept a sweeping and dismissive statement against the views of members of any other marginalised group, made by someone not from said group.

The hypocrisy and offensiveness of claiming to be standing up for/acting on concern for LGBT+ people is ridiculous if actually all that is being supported is a partisan, extremist political lobby who are homophobic and against women's equality and rights, particularly affecting and excluding women from protected and vulnerable groups.

The facts are plain that this lobby does so: and that supporters of the lobby simply reject or name call anyone pointing the hypocrisy out and refuse to discuss it. Which furthers the lies and oppression.

Really, your work place might as well announce that the business stands for a particular political party, say the Tory party, that the party's values are the only right ones, and anyone arguing for their right to vote or be free to talk about any other perspectives is evil, wrong and should be shunned.

Either work places need to step away from politics altogether and not bring their personal religions and politics to work at all, or they need to embrace all equally. This enforcement of the One True Faith needs to go. It's probably however going to take a lot of court cases and women and homosexuals losing their jobs which is fucking evil.

Thanks - these were the main points that I made actually, especially around being political and therefore not appropriate for work conversations and that women feel silenced and marginalised

Either work places need to step away from politics altogether and not bring their personal religions and politics to work at all, or they need to embrace all equally. This enforcement of the One True Faith needs to go. It's probably however going to take a lot of court cases and women and homosexuals losing their jobs which is fucking evil.

Aye.

Thank you, OP. You have stuck a stake in the sand, at very least.

If you wanted to push things gently it might be worth reminding them of duties to respect ALL protected characteristics, or some equivalent phrase.

Yes! The crux of my email was along these lines:

I think any truly inclusive workplace needs to recognise that opposing views on this matter exist, and are indeed valid. Allowing the chat below is presenting one side of the argument and potentially making women feel unsafe. It also goes against the idea that underpins our inclusivity agenda, namely that everyone should be able to bring their whole selves to work.

And also:

It would probably be safer if we kept workplace discussion of this highly sensitive topic to the minimum.

Please treat this communication as confidential – I fear even raising the opposing viewpoint could make me at risk in this organisation, and that says something.

If you wanted to push things gently it might be worth reminding them of duties to respect ALL protected characteristics, or some equivalent phrase.

Yes, I was thinking the same. If you’re in the public sector, there is a public sector equality duty (“PSED”) to balance the needs of all protected groups and promote good relations between them (paraphrasing - do check wording). They need reminding that women are protected under the sex PC and their PSED means they should promote good relations, not allow a slanging match in the meeting chat.

Thank you for standing up on this point @OhCareerSuicide . We have to start speaking up. You weren’t in the wrong.

Delurking to say thank you . Each time a woman puts her head above the parapet to stand up for women and our rights, our collective voices become stronger. This issue can't be ignored by any organisation/ employer, it's not going away. Keep terfing (as safely as you can)!

Great response - and not allowing the ‘slanging’ of women to be dominated by those at the top of the privilege tree too!

Thanks @BettyFilous this gives me something to work with. We are a public sector organisation (I think we are an ALB) so it would be good for me to look up the PSED

Well done, this was brave of you and will surely make some difference.

Thank you for standing up - solidarity! 💐

Well done!

I saw your title and sang "and I liked it" a la Katy Perry.

Bloody well done. 10 points to Griffindor.

I'm sure most people agree with you.

Well done OP! Someone has to be the first in every organisation. I've made complaints to our D&I team about that part of the intranet getting too political and that it should be limited to work-related matters. They also included some v dodgy statistics which i knew to be wrong but someone else might find alarming. Needless to say, all their copy came from some external provider and had been paid for.

Oh that had me in stitches @StrictlyAFemaleFemale - I can’t claim credit for the title. That was a work friend who shares my view. More around needing a support group with the same name.

I’ve been skirting terf at work territory for a while now and this was the final straw. A few weeks ago the women’s network was captured. And a bunch of people left.

@Crouton19 don’t tell me - it was inclusive employers?!

@OhCareerSuicide I cant remember the name but googled it at the time and it looked like a generic gender training and content provider. Nothing of substance on their website other than a lot of bios of the staff, none of whom had done much in particular but had funky names and pronouns.

I am not a lawyer, just someone whose role in a previous org touched equality stuff. If anyone who knows EA2010 well is lurking, please do jump in.

Well done @OhCareerSuicide and thank you for speaking out.

We all raise our voices with you.

So I actually had a rather wonderful conversation with my boss. This is an entirely new area for him, but he asked for some background reading. Anyone got suggestions? Maybe Harley’s stuff? Just covering the basics really.

Agreed.