Is woman a gender?

[Everythingtastesbetterwithcheese]

Ive been having a "discussion" with someone on social media, who claims that the word "woman" is just a social construct and describes someone's gender which means it can be used to describe anyone who identifies as one as gender is just how someone feels . The scientific word is female. Im quite confused now. I asked him what the word for a group of adult human females that didnt include adult human males was, and his reply was ciswomen. Can someone explain this to me? Is "woman" a gender?

[PurpleBugz]

Woman is the word for adult human female.

Like doe is the word for adult female deer or bitch is the word for femal dog etc

[TheUsualChaos]

Woman describes an adult female human. The same as girl describes infant/child female human. You cannot be a woman without being biologically female.

[midgemadgemodge]

Historically the term means adult human female and therefore isn't a description of gender

Feminine or lady-like was traditionally used to describe the the gender

Words do change however
But there is a problem where law uses the old sense and people try to use the new sense within the context of law

[midgemadgemodge]

Also if people insist on women being gender - they have to accept that the transgender population is huge and heavily dominated by females not wanting to be seen as feminine or lady like or any of the less complimentary associations with femininity

[AlisonDonut]

People who come out with this tosh are time wasting grievance gerbils and you should not waste your time debating with their nonsense.

You know full well what a woman is. You either are one or you are not.

[HipTightOnions]

Can the person you are talking to say what they mean by "someone's gender"? I bet they can't. No one ever can.

[SpringNotSprung]

Sex is what a person is: XX male, XY female.
Gender is what a person identifies as and nowadays there is a huge variation.
I identify as a heterosexual woman because it's what I am, increasingly this is described by others as cis.

People can identify as what they like in my opinion, provided they do no harm. If they want to identify as a green spotted monkey or woman, if they were born male, that's equally fine. If they want to dress up as a woman to mislead and do harm, and vice versa, that's not fine. The two are quite different.

[Theladyinluna]

@midgemadgemodge

Historically the term means adult human female and therefore isn't a description of gender

Feminine or lady-like was traditionally used to describe the the gender

Words do change however
But there is a problem where law uses the old sense and people try to use the new sense within the context of law

Words can change meaning, but there’s a kickback on this word change because it is not happening through natural usage ( in the way the meaning of ‘literally’ changed for example), but through imposition due to lobbyists with a particular political position.

Cis woman is not an acceptable replacement for woman, because it requires everyone to enter into the unevidenced belief system of gender identity, a belief system that not everyone holds and many find harmful and regressive. Expecting everyone to accept ‘ciswoman’ for adult human female is like expecting society and to now refer to people as either ‘saved’ or ‘not saved’ after intense lobbying from Christian fundamentalists.

[HipTightOnions]

Gender is what a person identifies as

What what a person identifies as, though? This is the bit that always seems to be missing.

I interpret "gender" (in the gender identity sense) as "the sex a person wants to be perceived as" but I'm not sure that would go down too well!

[zibzibara]

The only reason that "woman" has been redefined by some people is to appease men who desire to be women. This whole concept of "gender identity" comes from people desiring to be something they can never be: the opposite sex. It's an attempt to work around reality by using linguistic trickery.

[Boiledbeetle]

Woman is as woman was. Adult Human female

If some men dont like the word man to describe themselves they can think of another new word. But they can't have woman to describe their 'gender' it's already in use.

[midgemadgemodge]

But sprng how can I identify as a woman if I don't know what it is?

The stereotype based explanations mean I amnt one

Yet I suffer discrimination as a result of being seen as one

Because it's assumed based on your sex

Which is wrong

[JacquelinePot]

@zibzibara

The only reason that "woman" has been redefined by some people is to appease men who desire to be women. This whole concept of "gender identity" comes from people desiring to be something they can never be: the opposite sex. It's an attempt to work around reality by using linguistic trickery.

Not to derail, but "Gender identity" comes from John Money. A mid 20th century's doctor who performed experiments on children. His hypothesis being that one's understanding of oneself as being female or male is determined by the social role one is given by those around them.

He believed that you can make a boy a girl (and vice versa) if you tell them they are, dress them, give them toys and encourage behaviour stereotypically associated with the opposite sex. And of course create facsimile opposite sex genitals.

His most famous experiment on the Reimer twins ended in one suicide and one death by drug overdose.

The book As Nature Made Him is an excellent but harrowing account.

All of this nonsense is based on the abuse and lies work of this man.

[BluebellBlueballs]

Well, this is the nub of the whole thing isn't it. How do we categorise human beings. Some of us want this based on biological sex (what's between our legs) and others on a feeling of womanhood whatever that is (what's between our ears)

There is a currently a cultural war between these two positions and as the GC side gains ground, the TRA side is getting more and more angry.

[ArabeIIaScott]

No. A woman is an adult human female.

Men can't be women, and I cannot believe in 2023 we are having to say this out loud.

Those who would have you believe absurdities ...

[ArabeIIaScott]

@AlisonDonut

People who come out with this tosh are time wasting grievance gerbils and you should not waste your time debating with their nonsense.

You know full well what a woman is. You either are one or you are not.

Yes, although for the second paragraph, if children are being raised to believe that we get to choose our sex and we can change that at will, there will be a generation who may genuinely not know what sex they are.

Kids believe what they are told.

I'm getting quite worried about how the teen pregnancy rates are going to look shortly.

[literalviolence]

Cis woman is the name for a group of women (original, sensible meaning) who identify as women so he is completely wrong on that front and I suggest he consults Stonewall for a definition of woman (not because I think they're a good organisation but because they're on his 'side' and he's saying stuff which is at odds with what they're saying).

So ask him again, what is the name for a group of adult human females who don't identify as women?

[BluebellBlueballs]

@PurpleBugz

Woman is the word for adult human female.

Like doe is the word for adult female deer or bitch is the word for femal dog etc

I think there should be a new song

'Woman, a human a female human
Ray a drop of golden sun etc'

[JulieHoney]

Feminine and masculine are genders. Woman and man are the terms for adult humans who are female and male respectively.

Anyone claiming otherwise is selling you an ideology.

[zibzibara]

@JacquelinePot

Not to derail, but "Gender identity" comes from John Money. A mid 20th century's doctor who performed experiments on children. His hypothesis being that one's understanding of oneself as being female or male is determined by the social role one is given by those around them.

He believed that you can make a boy a girl (and vice versa) if you tell them they are, dress them, give them toys and encourage behaviour stereotypically associated with the opposite sex. And of course create facsimile opposite sex genitals.

His most famous experiment on the Reimer twins ended in one suicide and one death by drug overdose.

The book As Nature Made Him is an excellent but harrowing account.

All of this nonsense is based on the abuse and lies work of this man.

Thanks for the correction! I'd read about Money and his experiment on the Reimer twins but didn't know he'd coined "gender identity" as well. Makes it an even worse concept then, when considering it in its original context.

[Lottapianos]

'I asked him what the word for a group of adult human females that didnt include adult human males was, and his reply was ciswomen'

Well he sounds like a twerp and I wouldn't waste any more time discussing this with him

Everyone knew perfectly well what a woman is and what a man is until about 5 minutes ago. Now we're all expected to pretend that it's a hugely complicated issue and we must all tread carefully and #bekind. Well sod that. Biological sex is real, gender is nonsense

[JacquelinePot]

@zibzibara

Thanks for the correction! I'd read about Money and his experiment on the Reimer twins but didn't know he'd coined "gender identity" as well. Makes it an even worse concept then, when considering it in its original context.

There is another guy, I think about the same sort of time, who might be the kne to actually coin the term. I can never remember his name.

For me though, Money is the key character. He's the architect of the current medical model, even though he was debunked by his own patient, David Reimer.

Reimer, as an adult, recognised his story when he heard about it being used as proof positive of Money's theory and subsequent "treatment" being a roaring success. When he foind out that his case formed the basis of the treatment model used on others he was so horrified that he went public. There are interviews on YouTube, well worth watching.

[midgemadgemodge]

What is his word for adult human females that excludes all males and includes all females not just cisgender ones ?

[BluebellBlueballs]

@SpringNotSprung

Sex is what a person is: XX male, XY female.
Gender is what a person identifies as and nowadays there is a huge variation.
I identify as a heterosexual woman because it's what I am, increasingly this is described by others as cis.

People can identify as what they like in my opinion, provided they do no harm. If they want to identify as a green spotted monkey or woman, if they were born male, that's equally fine. If they want to dress up as a woman to mislead and do harm, and vice versa, that's not fine. The two are quite different.

Heterosexual has nothing to do with it. There are Heterosexual and homosexual adult human females
They are all women

[Theladyinluna]

But Money’s view, as described above, is completely at odds with the current iteration of gender identity. According to what you say about Money, there can be no trans, or gender dysphoria, as everyone would be fine with being the ‘sex’ they were raised as.

Whereas the current view is that we each are born with an innate gender identity that you need to spend time ‘discovering’.