Regent's Park College Oxford

[Iafontaine]

It was suggested that this might warrant its own thread. Regent's Park College Oxford appear to have introduced some interesting rules which might have some curious consequences depending on how they interpret “denying or disputing the validity and/or existence of a trans person's identity” especially as it can result in expulsion. I wonder if gender critical views would be enough?

"Regent’s Park College is thought to be the first college to recognise gender identity as a protected characteristic by implementing a specific policy about it.
The college said it believes “gender reassignment” is not an “exclusively medical” term and also has “personal” dimensions.
Its statement said: “Individuals perceived as having the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (even incorrectly) are still afforded its protections.”
It's reproduced here as I can't share The Telegraph:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/oxford-college-threatens-to-expel-students-who-misgender-trans-peers/ar-AA1c0aXe

[HipTightOnions]

The college’s students are also banned from ... “denying or disputing the validity and/or existence of a trans person’s identityy^”.

I wonder how they square this with EA protection for GC belief?

[Iafontaine]

I don't see how they can. What a mess.

[IcakethereforeIam]

How would they do that then? Forget to say 'good morning', refuse to believe people can change sex, say that TWANW? I wonder how that would square with Forstater?

I'm sure I saw something earlier today about this on the Cherwell (?) twitter account that was reporting on Doc Stock's visit.

[IcakethereforeIam]

Here

https://cherwell.org/2023/06/01/regents-park-links-trans-inclusion-statement-to-official-harrassment-policy/

[Iafontaine]

Interesting so from your link we have:
"The college is also committed to fostering good relations between groups with a protected characteristic and upholding freespeech: “Lawfully expressed gender-critical beliefs must be held in balance with the dignity and respect of trans people, and with the College’s statement of commitment to trans inclusion.
“Regent’s Park College respects the right of trans people to choose whether or not to participate in discussions or debates. Regent’s Park College also respects the rights of those holding gender-critical beliefs which are to be protected, provided their expression does not constitute harassment as not respecting the rights and freedoms of others.”
So still not particularly clear. Anyway it's very late where I am so will try to make sens in the morning.

[IwantToRetire]

“denying or disputing the validity and/or existence of a trans person's identity”

Its that whole double standard again.

What about “denying or disputing the validity and/or existence of a women's biology”

I dont see how an institution can create their own list of protected characteristics. Surely its against the law?

If only it were possible to think that their SU would challenge this.

Do colleges undergo inspection like secondary school do?

Is there an authority to lodge a complaint with?

[IwantToRetire]

Irony of ironies, this is what they say about themselves:

We have a long and proud history rooted in that of the Dissenters, who were for much of the college’s history excluded from the upper echelons of the British education system. No matter who you are or where you’re from, there is a home for you at Regent’s.

We were founded in the nineteenth century to provide an education for non-Anglicans excluded from the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge. When we moved to Oxford in 1927 we continued this mission of supporting disenfranchised communities – we were the first college to admit both men and women, and one of the first to publicly show our support for the LGBTQ+ community in the twenty-first by flying the Rainbow Flag. Despite, and perhaps because of, the barriers placed in our way, we’ve always been at the forefront of social change.

Along the way we’ve educated first-class cricketers, members of the House of Lords, laywers, civil servants, teachers, academics, poets, missionaries and abolitionists.

https://www.rpc.ox.ac.uk/study-here/why-choose-regents/

[Iafontaine]

I don't know if it would stand up to some kind of judicial review if that is appropriate in Oxford, but it will have a chilling effect no doubt.
Very much a double standard.

[IwantToRetire]

Oh dear - Oxford University Equality and Diversity Unit:

The University's commitment
Transgender definitions

In this policy ‘Transgender’ (trans) is used to refer to the following groups:

People who are taking or have taken steps to change the gender identity. This includes people covered by the Equality Act definition: “A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.”

People who do not identify with a permanent binary gender identity, including those who identify in other ways, such as genderqueer, gender variant, non-binary or agender. These terminologies are evolving and highly personal and this list is not exhaustive.

https://edu.admin.ox.ac.uk/transgender-policy#collapse1138111

[TheShellBeach]

So they're okay with denying actual women's biology - but not okay with anyone who dares to state the obvious fact that transwomen are men.

Got it.

[IcakethereforeIam]

The Cherwell thing seems to have lost its twitter and Instagram accounts!

[Hoardasurass]

Well they are in for a big shock the first time that they try to enforce this bs as contrary to stonewall advice/law they don't have the right to make up or change protected characteristics under the equality act 2010. As such "denighing someone's gi or its existence" is not something that they can punish anyone especially not those with the protected characteristic of belief.
The other problem that they will have is that they are attempting to compell speach and creating a hostile environment for gc students and staff by insisting that pronouns are used.
Basically the new rules are in themselves illegal harassment of and discrimination against those with the protected characteristic of belief and infringe on their human rights.
I do wonder if this would be a good task for the new free speech tear.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-65776173

[AmuseBish]

They'll need to be able to say what a gender identity is, then. How do I know what mine is? Is it anything to do with either physical sex, or nothing to do with either physical sex?

[Iafontaine]

How would this work in the UK? Would it take a student with wealthy parents/independent means coming up against this to challenge it? For the most part surely poorer students will be too worried that they might contravene the rules by wrongthink.
@Hoardasurass I agree that Arif Ahmed should look at this. It would be an interesting test case.

[TheShellBeach]

@IcakethereforeIam

The Cherwell thing seems to have lost its twitter and Instagram accounts!

Oh shame.

[AmuseBish]

And when they can't define it, that means that they have protected a characteristic that can't be defined. So, my wish to stay in bed all day and still get paid is my gender identity, which they will presumably validate? Or will they try and prove that some things are counted as gender identities and not others?

[Fenlandia]

@IwantToRetire

Oh dear - Oxford University Equality and Diversity Unit:

The University's commitment
Transgender definitions

In this policy ‘Transgender’ (trans) is used to refer to the following groups:

People who are taking or have taken steps to change the gender identity. This includes people covered by the Equality Act definition: “A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.”

People who do not identify with a permanent binary gender identity, including those who identify in other ways, such as genderqueer, gender variant, non-binary or agender. These terminologies are evolving and highly personal and this list is not exhaustive.

https://edu.admin.ox.ac.uk/transgender-policy#collapse1138111

Hang on, it actually says "Transgender’ (trans) is used to refer to the following groups: People who are taking or have taken steps to change the gender identity

(etc)

But isn't the whole thing about trans people that they were ALWAYS their stated gender identity and they, through name changes, pronouns, hormones, surgery etc, are affirming that permanent thing called gender identity??

These clowns don't even know what they're defending.

[IwantToRetire]

I looked to see whether the Oxford Feminist Union had responded to this, but cant see anything.

There doesn't seem to be any way of contacting them unless you are on twitter. Is anyone on twitter.

But agree maybe the Free Speech Tsar could look into. Or even the Minister for Education? Gillian Keegan? Anyone know anything about her?

[Iafontaine]

@Fenlandia the more I read the more confused I am. Is the idea that we all get a headache and just don't engage any more?

[SinnerBoy]

Regent’s Park College is thought to be the first college to recognise gender identity as a protected characteristic by implementing a specific policy about it.

They can recognise away to their heart's content, but it has no force in law, has it? If they expel, or otherwise discipline a student, based on that, they can expect to lose a law suit.

Surely it's just virtue signalling?

[Iafontaine]

I would hope so @SinnerBoy but fear some students would just be so browbeaten as to walk away rather than litigate (if they had the resources) to request such an institution reinstate them if they were expelled.
And what an atmosphere such regulations would create.

[Fenlandia]

@Iafontaine

@Fenlandia the more I read the more confused I am. Is the idea that we all get a headache and just don't engage any more?

Enforced acquiescence can't hold. If I worked or studied there, I'd be wary of talking to a trans colleague in case I said the wrong thing, even by mistake. So it doesn't even help the community it's supposed to.

[IcakethereforeIam]

Just posting it from the College's twitter account. They've turned off replies, the cowards.

twitter.com/RegentsOx/status/1664219474566828032?s=20

[AmuseBish]

@Fenlandia

Hang on, it actually says "Transgender’ (trans) is used to refer to the following groups: People who are taking or have taken steps to change the gender identity

(etc)

But isn't the whole thing about trans people that they were ALWAYS their stated gender identity and they, through name changes, pronouns, hormones, surgery etc, are affirming that permanent thing called gender identity??

These clowns don't even know what they're defending.

Exactly - yet another example of the muddled, inconsistent thinking of this ideology.

[Iafontaine]

@Fenlandia I wonder if also the not-engaging with a trans colleague would offend the rules 😬