Link between autism and gender dysphoria

[mids2019]

Anecdotally at my children's school there seems to be a few autistic children that have really entrenched views of the trans rights groups being correct and everyone having the right to self ID.

Could it be that gender dysphoria has a connection to neuro divergence? In a sense maybe the desire to change sex is a result of feeling socially isolated coupled with a desperation that changing sex would be an answer to the symptoms of autism?

It seems to me if gender dysphoria was treated from a neurological/psychological perspective there may be some positive outcomes. It could be that for instant the child simply has same sex attraction and therapy could help decouple the sexual attraction from feeling of being the wrong sex.

The problem currently with an affirmation only model is that vulnerable children are being pushed down a certain path without any psychological evaluation.

[PurpleBugz]

Oh I have soooo much to say on this.

I'm autistic myself and really can see how autistic kids are pulled into it. To be autistic in a NT world is to feel alien. If you are then told it's because you are the wrong gender/sex you may grasp at that because feeling wrong is so difficult. Add to that there is so little support for autistic kiddos and lots of support for transgenderism.... perfect storm

Billboard Chris has been saying 50% of trans kids are autistic.

[endofthelinefinally]

Have you read the Cass report OP?

[Thelondonone]

I would say anecdotally very true, especially for female to male. Also very intelligent.

[FirstFallopians]

I was speaking to a family member who works in CAMHs last week, chatting about the issues that they tend to deal with.

”A lot of kids on the autistic spectrum… and A LOT gender issues…”

I said hmmm yes, I understand there seems to be a big link there according to some professionals.

Family member went on to say that she felt that people with ASD are less likely to feel they needed to “fit in” with gender stereotypes, so it was a bit of a red herring.

Thank fuck DH interrupted at that stage as I thought my head was about to explode.

[SquirrelSoShiny]

The link between autism and trans identification is nothing new. A clinical psych I know said around 75% of their 'trans' caseload were either diagnosed or undergoing assessment for autism. This was several years ago. Neurodivergence often makes us feel like aliens. I clearly remember having gender dysphoria for a couple of years around age 11-13. Thank fuck this insanity didn't exist at that time!

[Whyx]

Have a very pro trans female friend who is dressing more and more androgenously. She has also just received an autism diagnosis at 30 years old. I actually think she may want to come out as non binary but knows my views on the matter and chooses not to bring it up. (I've always made clear that it's not something I would want to fall out over so let's not discuss it. Bit like politics)

I think it could be explained by perhaps thinking about how the male and female stereotypes don't fit everyone. Women don't always have long hair and men don't always do physical jobs etc. I would make the hypothesis that an autistic person might dislike all these people not fitting in with the "rules" of their gender or as we maybe see more often at the moment changing the sex category to fit outward features.

[PurpleBugz]

Autistic people are more likely than NT people to have abusive relationships. It's been proposed because of social communication challenges. Autistics can't always see when they are being manipulated and abused.

I think this could be extended to partially explain how they can't see that they have been indoctrinated into a cult. Although that doesn't explain why non autistic TRA can't see that.

Autistic people are also well known for black and white thinking. And we create rules and checklists for how to be in society. This what gender stereotypes look like to an autistic child- understanding them as a social construct when you struggle to understand basic social stuff and you are just a child is simply impossible.

So we create rules for ourselves based on what we observe in our environment of how we should behave. This is why you get little tell tales who annoy the teacher with every tiny transgression of their peers or the opposite they follow the naughty crowd but are more brazen about it not understanding the nuance of misbehaving and not wanting to be caught so are the ones getting caught. We find a group and like a sponge absorb the social norms of that group but because social stuff isn't always natural for us following those social norms is a list of mental rules for us. Those who depart from what we have worked out to be the rules are confusing and cause anxiety- often frustration that can come out violently if you have impulse control issues or struggles to manage your emotions.

Honestly I'm glad I am older. I was vocal about wanting to be a boy. I wanted the boys set of social rules. I dressed as a boy mixed with the boys and rejected being a girl. I would have transitioned if I were much younger there is no doubt in that for me.

And while I hate to admit it I was definitely behind my peers in emotional development. A teen autistic is emotionally often much younger. But we don't want to hear that when we are younger hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I'm now a parent to autistic kids. I know so many autistic kids. I'm so worried for them they are so vulnerable! A few are trans and I feel powerless because their parents are supportive of them and would cut me off if I made a counter argument

[IWillNoLie]

It doesn’t help that NAS and other autism organisations and most social media groups are not simply on board with this, they are fervent TRAs. So to reject gender ideology often means being excluded from autism groups as well. And seeking support for your autism can lead straight to gender ideology. Though of course it is sold as ‘trans people are more likely to be autistic’ not the other way round.

[PurpleBugz]

Are the stats we have differentiated by sex?

I'd be interested to know if male autistic kids are transitioning at the same rates female autistic kids are. I know more girls are transitioning as children but what % of each sex group is autistic?

My hypothesis being autism is more prevalent among the girls than the boys.

I would then love to to know the stats on which kids would have grown up homosexual but understand we won't get those stats. I suspect parents trans the gay away more in male children? That may be way off base. Literally just speculation and would love others opinions on it.

[Toomanysquishmallows]

I agree with IWillNotLie, a lot of organisations connected with autism, like the charity Sunshine Support, are very keen on gender ideology. I have an autistic teen daughter, who has always attended a special school. To my relief, she is happy with being a girl and understands that she can love marvel and wearing comfy clothes, without being a boy.

[BonfireLady]

@PurpleBugz my hunch, from everything that I have read, is also that there are more autistic girls than boys identifying as trans. I'm sure there are also autistic boys doing so, but Tavistock's figures alone suggest that it is overwhelmingly and increasingly autistic adolescent girls: 5000% increase in girls referring to the Tavistock over a 9 year period and 48% of referrals being autistic (including those identified by clinicians as having autistic traits).

@mids2019 from my own experience, taking a "differential diagnosis" approach, by looking at puberty distress through the lens of autism, helped to unpick the huge overlap in the conflation of gender identity and autism. It's been known for years that autistic girls often wear "boys' clothes" and are not impacted by girls' stereotypes - also that they can experience their changing bodies as trauma (change in itself, plus the sensory aspect of breasts growing and periods).... yet somehow, that all gets set aside when gender identity is mentioned.

[BlackeyedSusan]

And our peers accelerate socially away from us and we are left behind with less stereotypically girl interests.

[BonfireLady]

@BlackeyedSusan

And our peers accelerate socially away from us and we are left behind with less stereotypically girl interests.

A very key point.

My neurotypical daughter is very "gender non-conforming" (likes climbing trees, "boys' clothes (and school shoes - way more practical) and looks at her fellow year 7 girls with bemusement as they parade their handbags at school. However, she's absolutely an equal when it comes to emotional and social maturity.

By contrast, my autistic daughter (who is older and has been through a better gender-questioning stage that got very intense), can't keep up with her peers' social interactions at all. She has no clue what is going on in WhatsApp chats, for example. She is in a totally different head space in this respect. She's very clever, so comes across as mature in all other settings. She can talk about politics, the news, science etc etc. But has no idea how to interact socially with peers, especially those that are discovering and experimenting with feminity during puberty.

[BonfireLady]

Not sure how the word "better" got in to the above.
A weird quick keyboard/auto fill moment.

[FriendofJoanne]

@BonfireLady I watched a youtube by EDI Jester today (about a child with ASC, distressed at puberty, fully affirmed by all counsellors) and wondered if it was connected to issues with change.

Am I right in thinking that people with ASC can be quite routine led and find change difficult? In which case puberty must be very difficult because your own body is changing, and for some children much more rapidly than others, it must be very disconcerting for a child with ASC.

[FriendofJoanne]

The video is here 1

based on this article <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.md/2023.05.26-143429/www.theaustralian.com.au/life/trans-kids-and-their-families-lost-in-maze-of-gender-ideology-anguish/news-story/84859b3579ee2a5eb23de98d54b55b3a?amp=&nk=cbe4cc0498b7010baf6f3fa2d5688ea2-1685111678" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">https://archive.md/2023.05.26-143429/www.theaustralian.com.au/life/trans-kids-and-their-families-lost-in-maze-of-gender-ideology-anguish/news-story/84859b3579ee2a5eb23de98d54b55b3a?amp&nk=cbe4cc0498b7010baf6f3fa2d5688ea2-1685111678

[FriendofJoanne]

op Autism - Stats For Gender

2 recent studies at the GIDS service showed 35%- 48% children under the service with ASC

[DemiColon]

@FirstFallopians

I was speaking to a family member who works in CAMHs last week, chatting about the issues that they tend to deal with.

”A lot of kids on the autistic spectrum… and A LOT gender issues…”

I said hmmm yes, I understand there seems to be a big link there according to some professionals.

Family member went on to say that she felt that people with ASD are less likely to feel they needed to “fit in” with gender stereotypes, so it was a bit of a red herring.

Thank fuck DH interrupted at that stage as I thought my head was about to explode.

I've heard this from a friend of mine, she has an autistic daughter who is now identifying as a transboy, mum is autistic as well.

She is convinced that people with autism are more often trans because they are more able to think outside of boxes and don't need social approval.

Which just seems to show that the degree to which she is unaware of her own thought processes because I don't know many people who are more black and white thinkers than she is. It's impossible to talk to her about any of it, it seems like she literally cannot envision another POV.

[IWillNoLie]

@DemiColon

I've heard this from a friend of mine, she has an autistic daughter who is now identifying as a transboy, mum is autistic as well.

She is convinced that people with autism are more often trans because they are more able to think outside of boxes and don't need social approval.

Which just seems to show that the degree to which she is unaware of her own thought processes because I don't know many people who are more black and white thinkers than she is. It's impossible to talk to her about any of it, it seems like she literally cannot envision another POV.

She thinks that because that is what she has been told.

[BonfireLady]

Am I right in thinking that people with ASC can be quite routine led and find change difficult? In which case puberty must be very difficult because your own body is changing, and for some children much more rapidly than others, it must be very disconcerting for a child with ASC.

@FriendofJoanne this is very much what I believe is behind it.
Dr Cass talks about some children potentially"locking on" to a trans identity if they socially transition - I think autistic children are much more prone to this kind of locking on. Also to the black and white thinking that @DemiColon describes in the first place, to recognise being trans as the answer for non-gender conformity. It's like the perfect storm, of social emotional immaturity, not a having stereotypically "girly" personality, a social media whirl of trans positivity (my daughter was being bullied for her autistic reactions to things in school - a positive happy world of trans joy and rainbows is very attractive) and locking on.

I only have an experience of one autistic child but I wrote a blog that describes our experience. I'm going to watch the video you posted above - when I do, I'll be thinking about how things could have gone for my daughter if I hadn't put the brakes on the pathway that she was on.

I've posted it on a few threads now (apologies to those who have seen it lots 🤦‍♀️) but here is our story, regarding autism and gender identity.

Our story

She is convinced that people with autism are more often trans because they are more able to think outside of boxes and don't need social approval.

I can see why this makes sense to your friend @DemiColon. Not seeking (or possibly not understanding) social approval is true in many autistic people's cases.... But the boxes are very much there 🤦‍♀️ "If I don't fit in the girl box, I must be in the boy box".

[Speermint]

Women’s social relationships are more complex than men’s, so it’s easy to understand how an autistic female would fit in better with men than with women. Add to that the fact that an autistic female is more likely (because of sensory difficulties) to wear loose plain clothing, flat shoes, no jewellery, no makeup or nails, plain hairstyle. Those things will cause an autistic female to be rejected by other women, but it’s nothing out of the ordinary among a group of men. It seems logical therefore that an autistic female will feel she fits in better with men socially, and her plain personal style which is unacceptable to women also fits in with men.

The problem is, men won’t let the autistic female be in their group of “lads” because she’s not a man. So it’s not surprising if she decides she’s a man in order to be accepted.

That’s before you even consider that autistic females struggle with puberty, not knowing how to react to their changing bodies and attention from men (which they often perceive as harassment and find scary). How tempting to just opt out!

[bryceQ]

Is this typically just autistic girls?

[BonfireLady]

@bryceQ

Is this typically just autistic girls?

I can only speak for the female angle (from my own experience and the focus of my own research to support my daughter) but I am aware that there are autistic boys who also question their gender identity.
There have been posters on other similar threads who have mentioned boys.

[bryceQ]

I was just curious given the traditional lack of understanding of the presentation of autism in girls. I can see why not fitting in leads to questioning their identity

I feel like many of the autistic boys I know would be very ridgid in thinking sex is completely binary. There as an episode like this on the good doctor actually

[Speermint]

@bryceQ

Is this typically just autistic girls?

Put it this way:

Autistic boy wears comfy loose clothes, no makeup or nail varnish etc, doesn’t style his hair or pluck his eyebrows or shave - he’s gender conforming and is accepted by the other boys.

Autistic girl does the same - she’s non gender conforming and is rejected by the other girls.

Which one is more likely to decide they’re a better fit with the opposite sex?