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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Vanishing girls

29 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 27/05/2023 12:16

They call us pupils
they call us students
they call us young people
they call us 13-18-year-olds
they call us learners

That's not my name.
That's not my name.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-65695115

Article on period products works very hard to avoid using the word 'girls'.

Photo shows Tilly, she has blonde hair and a white jumper. She is smiling.

'No pads at school, so my period leaked on exam chair'

Some pupils are struggling to access period products in schools, data shared with BBC News suggests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-65695115

OP posts:
WorkinMumsince4ever · 27/05/2023 13:11

Who edits this work should be ashamed! They don’t even dare to say “girl’s toilets”.

“In some schools and colleges, the Period Products Scheme is working well.
At Harlow College, in Essex, a tote bag filled with pads and tampons hangs on the back of unisex toilet cubicle doors.”

AnarchoTyrannosaurus · 27/05/2023 13:17

WorkinMumsince4ever · 27/05/2023 13:11

Who edits this work should be ashamed! They don’t even dare to say “girl’s toilets”.

“In some schools and colleges, the Period Products Scheme is working well.
At Harlow College, in Essex, a tote bag filled with pads and tampons hangs on the back of unisex toilet cubicle doors.”

I would not want to touch pads and tampons that had been left in a mixed sex toilet.

continentallentil · 27/05/2023 13:38

A recent survey of 1,007 13-18-year-old girls, by period-equality charity IRise International, suggests:

They do use girls here. Admittedly they use it less often than they might, but referring to them as pupils in the school context is fair enough, it’s the fact they are pupils dictated to by school rules that is causing problems.

continentallentil · 27/05/2023 13:40

WorkinMumsince4ever · 27/05/2023 13:11

Who edits this work should be ashamed! They don’t even dare to say “girl’s toilets”.

“In some schools and colleges, the Period Products Scheme is working well.
At Harlow College, in Essex, a tote bag filled with pads and tampons hangs on the back of unisex toilet cubicle doors.”

What’s the fact that the school has unisex toilets got to do with the journalist?!

If the are unisex toilets it wouldn’t be correct to call them girls’. The journalist is including the fact that they are unisex specifically because this is part of the problem, otherwise you’d just write toilets.

WorkinMumsince4ever · 27/05/2023 14:25

‘The journalist is including the fact that they are unisex specifically because this is part of the problem’
I am truly trying to understand what you see as “part of the problem”. Why not call them “girls?”
in your previous comment, you rightly point out their usage of “girls”, however why can’t we find consistent usage of the term throughout the note? Specially at the start. Only women menstruate.

ArabeIIaScott · 27/05/2023 14:29

I read that single, solitary use of 'girls' as a direct quote from the charity. It's the only time the article uses the word girl at all.

Fwiw schools do put sanpro in all school toilets here in Scotland. Guess what happens to most of it in the boys toilets?

OP posts:
faffadoodledo · 27/05/2023 14:34

It makes one doubt the top line. Is it four in ten pupils or four in ten girls? I'm sure they mean four in ten girls. So why not for the sake of accuracy say it?

Catiette · 27/05/2023 14:34

They use "girls" in the context of the survey, and only in the context of the survey. I've no time to look at the survey to check this, but given the isolated, use in this single context of a word that is avoided to the point of unnatural expression & compromised clarity everywhere else in the article, it's an not unreasonable assumption that it was seen as acceptable here only because the survey itself used this word, thereby enabling the BBC to avoid accountability for using it themselves.

This is one I may write a complaint on. I find it disgraceful that meaning is obscured by political bias in a way that disadvantages girls. In the opening line, are 4 out of every 10 girls, or 4 out of every 5 girls, struggling to access products? It's unclear without rereading, which, again, I've not had time to do - but this is just the point; it shouldn't be necessary to read, re-read, cross-reference and potentially carry out some mental arithmetic to discern the meaning of what's being reported.

Invisible women, and invisible girls. I find it so, viscerally - tightening throat as I type this - distressing.

Catiette · 27/05/2023 14:35

Snap, @faffadoodledo . Will you write?

Catiette · 27/05/2023 14:35

And @ArabeIIaScott . Great minds...

AlecTrevelyan006 · 27/05/2023 14:53

That article is a load of bollocks

ArabeIIaScott · 27/05/2023 14:53

Okay, good plan. I have got a bit defeatist about this recently but you're right - they are erasing my daughter, here. I'll complain.

OP posts:
Catiette · 27/05/2023 14:58

Great. Me, too. I'd hope we can get them to acknowledge the lack of clarity. That's an objective issue with the piece I'd like to think they can't argue with. When politicised wording obscures meaning, that's a huge issue for a supposedly neutral national news source.

ArabeIIaScott · 27/05/2023 14:59

Yes.

OP posts:
Walkingtheplank · 27/05/2023 15:35

Its a useless article. If 40% of pupils could not access products, 60% did - so is that because the 40% were actually boys and all the girls did find products? I assume it actually means 40% of girls but its not clear. Can you imagine this in a verbal reasoning test - how would you work it out?

Walkingtheplank · 27/05/2023 15:38

I can confirm that 0% of pupils at my son's school have been provided with free products so that's really poor on their part. The BBC should get on to it. No need for them to mention there are no girls at the school.

Catiette · 27/05/2023 15:52

Feel free to use the below if you'd like to complain. It only takes a minute (link above), and the more who do, the better. The BBC need to hear that, while there are people who may find the use of sexed language distressing and feel disadvantaged by such, there are also those who find its omission distressing and feel disadvantaged by this. I wouldn't like to be on an editorial team navigating this, and would be sympathetic to language that names sex while acknowledging gender. But to focus wholly on the latter to the exclusion of the former is unambiguous bias, and deeply unsettling. It hits me far harder than any outright and aggressive misogynist insult, because it's institutionalised, and shaping national conversation, from a professedly politically impartial source.

"In your article on the important and underreported issue of a lack of period products at schools, your omission of the use of sexed language (excepting a single reference to "girls" in the context of a survey by "Rise International") is marked. Your adoption of gender-neutral/de-sexed language such as "pupils" and "students" in reporting on an issue affecting only females makes parts of the article at best confusing, and, at worst, misleading or inaccurate.

For example, the opening statistics of "four out of every 10 pupils " logically must mean that you include males in these statistics. However, given that males do not experience periods, the reader naturally wonders whether they should assume that "pupils" instead refers to females only. This has a direct and substantial impact on national understanding of the extent of this very serious issue: are 40%, or 80%, of female students, affected? This is a huge difference, and I quite genuinely don't know which you intended. It shouldn't be necessary to read, re-read, cross-reference and/or make assumptions to discern your meaning. You have a mandate to communicate information clearly and accurately.

It is hard to understand a national broadcaster deliberately deciding to adopt language that actively obscures meaning. In reporting on a sex-based issue such as this, political bias towards favouring gender identity over biological sex would seem to be the only possible explanation.

There is a place for such language, to acknowledge and respect minority groups. However, sex is also a protected characteristic in the Equality Act of 2010, and this report is, arguably, about discrimination on the basis of sex. It is about a damaging lack of recognition of girls'/females' needs, and on society's resistance to acknowledging these needs. As such, it is deeply ironic and quite upsetting to see our national broadcaster's editorial decisions demonstrating and perpetuating these very same biases."

Lessoftheold · 27/05/2023 16:07

Thank you for the link, I have complained too. I'm so sick and tired of this.

Catiette · 27/05/2023 16:08

Hm.

Did I get my percentages right in the above? I find it genuinely takes a fair bit of thought to translate this stat into its various possible permutations, and was focussing on the argument without giving a thought to the maths! My - brief - thinking was that, if, say, 10 kids are surveyed, at 50:50 boys & girls (so 5 of each), with 40% of the 10 affected, that means 80% (4 out of 5) of the girls are affected. If the hypothetical 10 were all girls, then that means half of that, at 40%.

Right?

🤔

Definitely a words-not-numbers gal...

But doesn't that make the point well? I'm not being facetious - I honestly don't know which they mean.

And I want to know.

Catiette · 27/05/2023 16:08

Me, too, @Lessoftheold . As you may have guessed.

ArabeIIaScott · 27/05/2023 16:19

Excellent letter, Catiette. Thank you for sharing.

OP posts:
BrunchMonster · 28/05/2023 08:51

There's another article about access to period products on the BBC app this morning, about communities in South Africa, and it uses the word 'girls' liberally throughout. Reading it really makes you aware how privileged an environment is when gender issues have become such a thing. No males are queueing up to take on girls' roles in those situations, nor carrying around spare tampax in the hopes of offering it round with a bit of girlie chat.
I assume the BBC must recognise this at some level, as it doesn't seem to torture the language to explain that this is happening to girls when it's in Africa.

BrunchMonster · 28/05/2023 08:52

South Africa period poverty: 'I don't want anyone else to use rags for sanitary pads' www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-65624739

nothingcomestonothing · 28/05/2023 10:02

I've complained, highlighting that they are obscuring information from those with lower levels of reading comprehension or English as an additional language, in favour of privileged readers who know full well who has periods. Much good it will do since the BBC is completely captured, but at least they know we can see them and their bias.

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